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What are the odds that Curry can top Magic as the best PG ever and what does Curry need to do for the rest of his career to top Johnson?

Not sure.

I think I'd take Curry's peak over Magic's personally, but there's arguments for both.

In terms of prime seasons, I think Magic has more of them compared to Curry at the moment. Curry's prime started in 2013 until now with 1 missed full season.

Magic's best 3 year stretch is probably 87 to 90. For Curry, I'd say it's 15 to 18. I can see arguments for both sides here.

In terms of a 5 year stretch, 86 to 91 for Magic. For Curry, I'd go 15 to 20(but he has 1 full missed season) in this argument, so I'd go Magic.

Magic has led better offenses in the playoffs and RS from a quick glance. He's probably the more positive defender too.

I think Magic is the better peak/prime player, and to the point where it will likely override any longevity advantage Curry will likely hold.

is possible

Currys issue is the level of his playoffs aren’t quite on his RS usually

RS wise he’ll be better probably, but 2017 was his only “signature” playoff run, although 2022 might end up there if he has an all time finals like he currently is.

Relatively speaking of course

2015 was decent but not as quite as good as his RS that year, 2016 was pretty bad, 2017 was insane, 2018 was okay, 2019 was good

RS wise I think he’ll surpass him but I think he’ll need a few runs, which is possible of course

It seems possible he could get himself into that tier as a player. Not that I think there will be any consensus but there will probably be people who are placing Steph ahead of Magic if he has another 2 high level seasons after this year.

Couple more high level seasons and it's definitely a real discussion.

It's possible, but not very likely to me. Curry needs much better longevity for me to be considered ahead and I'm not sure he will reach that.

Magic barely played more than a decade in the NBA and still holds a pretty significant longevity advantage. Peak for peak they're comparable with Curry probably having a slight edge but Magic was just so incredibly consistent throughout his prime, while Curry has disappointed in the play-offs way too often for it to just be a fluke. I think about 2 more seasons like 2022 for Curry and I'd be more open to comparisons between him and Magic. It is a definite possibility but not incredibly likely either.

I think he already has. He made need to do a bit more for consensus to catch up, though.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:It seems possible he could get himself into that tier as a player. Not that I think there will be any consensus but there will probably be people who are placing Steph ahead of Magic if he has another 2 high level seasons after this year.

This is my thought, 2 more high level seasons to really make it a toss-up for GOAT PG (I have Oscar in the discussion as well). 1 more and I think some may prefer him, and 3 more is where I'd probably start going with Curry.

High level meaning clear All-NBA season, at least some fringe MVP talk.

He already is.

The only argument I see for Magic is awards. Of which I believe Curry has been robbed of multiple anyway. Curry more than any player is suffering from being ahead of his time where basketball analytics is still a decade behind his value. There doesn't exist within current basketball milieu a single metric which captures a Stephen Curry convincingly. I would go as far as to say the current state of player assessment is orthogonal to a Stephen Curry player value.

What is clear is that Curry has lead the franchise during the era of superteams that is a cut above the rest. What is clear is that he has the most RS wins in the history of the NBA. and what is clear is Curry will have half of the championships since his first one in 2015. And to me at least, what is clear is that the Warriors would plummet off of a cliff if Curry were to retire now and I think no one would be surprised after the fact despite not acknowledging it now. And that I know if any other player were making a difference of that magnitude from a championship team to a bottom-feeder would instantly propel them to best player in the league, while Curry is still being undervalued, is only further demonstrating to me how much the current state of basketball analysis is hurting his valuation. It's not a failure of Curry that the state of basketball analysis sucks.

ChartFiction wrote:He already is.

The only argument I see for Magic is awards. Of which I believe Curry has been robbed of multiple anyway. Curry more than any player is suffering from being ahead of his time where basketball analytics is still a decade behind his value. There doesn't exist within current basketball milieu a single metric which captures a Stephen Curry convincingly. I would go as far as to say the current state of player assessment is orthogonal to a Stephen Curry player value.

What is clear is that Curry has lead the franchise during the era of superteams that is a cut above the rest. What is clear is that he has the most RS wins in the history of the NBA. and what is clear is Curry will have half of the championships since his first one in 2015. And to me at least, what is clear is that the Warriors would plummet off of a cliff if Curry were to retire now and I think no one would be surprised after the fact despite not acknowledging it now. And that I know if any other player were making a difference of that magnitude from a championship team to a bottom-feeder would instantly propel them to best player in the league, while Curry is still being undervalued, is only further demonstrating to me how much the current state of basketball analysis is hurting his valuation. It's not a failure of Curry that the state of basketball analysis sucks.

If current basketball analytics can't measure Curry's impact in the PS with pure adjusted plus-minus numbers (literally how your team does with you on vs off the floor), then I do question if Curry is as otherworldly as suggested. The only thing I believe that could be missing in this formula, is that we consistently see Curry with the GSW and not with other teams, therefore it is hard to see how he could impact other groups if given a chance. But I don't see any reason to believe, that what we have can't measure his value to the Warriors.

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

ChartFiction wrote:He already is.

The only argument I see for Magic is awards. Of which I believe Curry has been robbed of multiple anyway. Curry more than any player is suffering from being ahead of his time where basketball analytics is still a decade behind his value. There doesn't exist within current basketball milieu a single metric which captures a Stephen Curry convincingly. I would go as far as to say the current state of player assessment is orthogonal to a Stephen Curry player value.

What is clear is that Curry has lead the franchise during the era of superteams that is a cut above the rest. What is clear is that he has the most RS wins in the history of the NBA. and what is clear is Curry will have half of the championships since his first one in 2015. And to me at least, what is clear is that the Warriors would plummet off of a cliff if Curry were to retire now and I think no one would be surprised after the fact despite not acknowledging it now. And that I know if any other player were making a difference of that magnitude from a championship team to a bottom-feeder would instantly propel them to best player in the league, while Curry is still being undervalued, is only further demonstrating to me how much the current state of basketball analysis is hurting his valuation. It's not a failure of Curry that the state of basketball analysis sucks.

If current basketball analytics can't measure Curry's impact in the PS with pure adjusted plus-minus numbers (literally how your team does with you on vs off the floor), then I do question if Curry is as otherworldly as suggested. The only thing I believe that could be missing in this formula, is that we consistently see Curry with the GSW and not with other teams, therefore it is hard to see how he could impact other groups if given a chance. But I don't see any reason to believe, that what we have can't measure his value to the Warriors.

Theoretically there could be some 'culture' value type arguments where Curry makes his teammates better when not on the floor than they would be on other teams (another coach on the bench, going against him in practice, just generally being pleasant and getting the best from his fellow coworkers - Duncan another we see get some points for this).

But basically impossible to quantify as best I can tell.

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

ChartFiction wrote:He already is.

The only argument I see for Magic is awards. Of which I believe Curry has been robbed of multiple anyway. Curry more than any player is suffering from being ahead of his time where basketball analytics is still a decade behind his value. There doesn't exist within current basketball milieu a single metric which captures a Stephen Curry convincingly. I would go as far as to say the current state of player assessment is orthogonal to a Stephen Curry player value.

What is clear is that Curry has lead the franchise during the era of superteams that is a cut above the rest. What is clear is that he has the most RS wins in the history of the NBA. and what is clear is Curry will have half of the championships since his first one in 2015. And to me at least, what is clear is that the Warriors would plummet off of a cliff if Curry were to retire now and I think no one would be surprised after the fact despite not acknowledging it now. And that I know if any other player were making a difference of that magnitude from a championship team to a bottom-feeder would instantly propel them to best player in the league, while Curry is still being undervalued, is only further demonstrating to me how much the current state of basketball analysis is hurting his valuation. It's not a failure of Curry that the state of basketball analysis sucks.

If current basketball analytics can't measure Curry's impact in the PS with pure adjusted plus-minus numbers (literally how your team does with you on vs off the floor), then I do question if Curry is as otherworldly as suggested. The only thing I believe that could be missing in this formula, is that we consistently see Curry with the GSW and not with other teams, therefore it is hard to see how he could impact other groups if given a chance. But I don't see any reason to believe, that what we have can't measure his value to the Warriors.

http://nbashotcharts.com/rapm5?id=-1129977058

Curry is leading in every 5 year stretch of RAPM since 2013.

PS RAPM is pointless. Low sample size, lineup shenanigans, and different conferences. Curry's PS is heavily impacted by missing early rounds in multiple years.

Curry, if he wins this year, will have won 4 out of the last 7 seasons he's played.

ChartFiction wrote:

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

ChartFiction wrote:He already is.

The only argument I see for Magic is awards. Of which I believe Curry has been robbed of multiple anyway. Curry more than any player is suffering from being ahead of his time where basketball analytics is still a decade behind his value. There doesn't exist within current basketball milieu a single metric which captures a Stephen Curry convincingly. I would go as far as to say the current state of player assessment is orthogonal to a Stephen Curry player value.

What is clear is that Curry has lead the franchise during the era of superteams that is a cut above the rest. What is clear is that he has the most RS wins in the history of the NBA. and what is clear is Curry will have half of the championships since his first one in 2015. And to me at least, what is clear is that the Warriors would plummet off of a cliff if Curry were to retire now and I think no one would be surprised after the fact despite not acknowledging it now. And that I know if any other player were making a difference of that magnitude from a championship team to a bottom-feeder would instantly propel them to best player in the league, while Curry is still being undervalued, is only further demonstrating to me how much the current state of basketball analysis is hurting his valuation. It's not a failure of Curry that the state of basketball analysis sucks.

If current basketball analytics can't measure Curry's impact in the PS with pure adjusted plus-minus numbers (literally how your team does with you on vs off the floor), then I do question if Curry is as otherworldly as suggested. The only thing I believe that could be missing in this formula, is that we consistently see Curry with the GSW and not with other teams, therefore it is hard to see how he could impact other groups if given a chance. But I don't see any reason to believe, that what we have can't measure his value to the Warriors.

http://nbashotcharts.com/rapm5?id=-1129977058

Curry is leading in every 5 year stretch of RAPM since 2014.

PS RAPM is pointless. Low sample size, lineup shenanigans, and different conferences. Curry's PS is heavily impacted by missing early rounds in multiple years.

Curry, if he wins this year, will have won 4 out of the last 7 seasons he's played.

Well I value PS play too much to simply hand waive the multi-year plus-minus figures. But to each their own.

ChartFiction wrote:

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

ChartFiction wrote:He already is.

The only argument I see for Magic is awards. Of which I believe Curry has been robbed of multiple anyway. Curry more than any player is suffering from being ahead of his time where basketball analytics is still a decade behind his value. There doesn't exist within current basketball milieu a single metric which captures a Stephen Curry convincingly. I would go as far as to say the current state of player assessment is orthogonal to a Stephen Curry player value.

What is clear is that Curry has lead the franchise during the era of superteams that is a cut above the rest. What is clear is that he has the most RS wins in the history of the NBA. and what is clear is Curry will have half of the championships since his first one in 2015. And to me at least, what is clear is that the Warriors would plummet off of a cliff if Curry were to retire now and I think no one would be surprised after the fact despite not acknowledging it now. And that I know if any other player were making a difference of that magnitude from a championship team to a bottom-feeder would instantly propel them to best player in the league, while Curry is still being undervalued, is only further demonstrating to me how much the current state of basketball analysis is hurting his valuation. It's not a failure of Curry that the state of basketball analysis sucks.

If current basketball analytics can't measure Curry's impact in the PS with pure adjusted plus-minus numbers (literally how your team does with you on vs off the floor), then I do question if Curry is as otherworldly as suggested. The only thing I believe that could be missing in this formula, is that we consistently see Curry with the GSW and not with other teams, therefore it is hard to see how he could impact other groups if given a chance. But I don't see any reason to believe, that what we have can't measure his value to the Warriors.

http://nbashotcharts.com/rapm5?id=-1129977058

Curry is leading in every 5 year stretch of RAPM since 2014.

PS RAPM is pointless. Low sample size, lineup shenanigans, and different conferences. Curry's PS is heavily impacted by missing early rounds in multiple years.

Curry, if he wins this year, will have won 4 out of the last 7 seasons he's played.

the thingh abour rapm is that we only really have it for duncan/garnett/kobe at oldest so an argument based on rapm cannot adress jordan, kareem, wilt, hakeem, magic, etc

the othe thingh about rapm is that within the 25 years we have of it, curry doesnt have the best results either, lebron does

then garnett, duncan, curry amd chris paul usually complement the top 5

all those guys have as good of a rapm career wise as curry (chris paul) but with more lpngevity (garnett, duncan) or better rapm results and longevity (james)

just within the last 25 years, if i used rapm to make my ranking i probably would have lebron, garnett and duncan ahead of curry, so top 3 based on RAPM for curry seems unlikely

Magic is a better passer.

But in terms of overall domination from the PG position, Steph is right there.

obviously he has his goat shooting, but also his gravitational playmaking is something you can't really quantify

Magic is a much better post season player. I don't think Curry has a realistic chance.

HeartBreakKid wrote:Magic is a much better post season player. I don't think Curry has a realistic chance.

I'm sure it's great beating up on 38 and 40 win teams in the weakest era of the Western conference ever.