Explain how these players are better than Robinson

[migya]

There's been much talk recently here about to 10, top 20 or so rankings. Robinson has constantly been placed around 15-20. I don't understand how some players mentioned ahead of him had better careers so give your reasonings :

Players mentioned -

Garnett, Nowitzki, Curry, DrJ, Durant, Moses, CP, Nash.

Name other players of you want.

[Stalwart]

Longevity and/or career achievement seems to be the common theme here.

Curry, Dr. J, Durant, and Moses hit higher peaks in terms of individual + team dominance. Plus they've achieved more in their careers.

Robinson is comparable to Nowitzki & Garnett in terms of peak and career achievements but they have him beat with longevity.

I wouldn't put Nash or CP over him. I'd have these 2 probably 10-15 spots lower than Robinson personally.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I might overrate rim protectors. Hakeem and Robinson are better than Duncan. By Robinson I mean the Robinson that played before Duncan entered the league. I keep getting the feeling that most of Realgm members have not even seen video of pre-Duncan Robinson. I think most Realgm members are too young to remember the NBA before Duncan.

Curry and Nash are difficult comparisons with Robinson because they are guards. CP had his peak in New Orleans.

I would rather watch Dr J but Robinson was better. Small chance that ABA Dr J was better than Robinson.

Robinson was a lot more of a defensive presence than Moses.
Robinson was just plain better than KG and Dirk if you are counting 3 year peaks rather than longevity. Maybe I missed some great KG years on bad Minnesota teams but I watched KG in the playoffs with Sam Cassell and Spreewell.

I still have not decided how I feel about KD. KD does good things on defense and is a fantastic shooter. KD’s shooting or Robinson’s play as a defensive center? Too bad you can’t merge KD nd KG and Robinson into one player. They have some physical similarities too each other.

[70sFan]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

[70sFan]

I keep getting the feeling that most of Realgm members have not even seen video of pre-Duncan Robinson. I think most Realgm members are to young to remember the NBA before Duncan.

Then you are wrong, nowadays it's very easy to watch prime Robinson games.

[penbeast0]

I keep getting the feeling that most of Realgm members have not even seen video of pre-Duncan Robinson. I think most Realgm members are to young to remember the NBA before Duncan.

Then you are wrong, nowadays it's very easy to watch prime Robinson games.

And some people have watched them; others haven't. Plus, watching games on Youtube.com or a similar channel isn't the same as watching them live nor does it have the emotional content of having watched them as they play out, even on TV.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

I hate longevity.
My daddy can beat up your daddy. Yah but what if my daddy is 55 and your daddy is 45 and my daddy at his age 45 would have been able to beat up your daddy at 45?

I don’t understand the appeal of longevity. On sports talk radio and other pre-internet sports talk longevity was not considered except perhaps in Hank Aaron vs Babe Ruth. Or Gordie Howe.

Even when I arrived at realgm in early 2,000s I don’t remember Longevity being praised. I feel like Longevity was invented by the fans of Karl Malone, Dirk, KG, Kobe and LeBron. 20 years from now if the young stars of today and those entering the league soon don’t have longevity the young majority of realgm members will reject longevity as a criteria. I think realgm will always be dominated by the young and the young will be biassed in favor of the players they grew up with.

Perhaps athletes with longevity may be here to stay due to improved training and medical staffs at least for the tall players. John Stockton may have been a fluke. It would not surprise me if KD plays until he is 40.

[70sFan]

I keep getting the feeling that most of Realgm members have not even seen video of pre-Duncan Robinson. I think most Realgm members are to young to remember the NBA before Duncan.

Then you are wrong, nowadays it's very easy to watch prime Robinson games.

And some people have watched them; others haven't. Plus, watching games on Youtube.com or a similar channel isn't the same as watching them live nor does it have the emotional content of having watched them as they play out, even on TV.

I'd say from strictly analytical standpoint it's better to rewatch these games, not to watch them live. On the other hand, you miss a lot of off-court nuances going that way.

Either way, the idea that people don't rank Robinson higher than Duncan because they didn't watch prime Robinson doesn't sound fair if you talk about PC Board posters. Plenty of people rewatch historical games here.

[70sFan]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

I hate longevity.
My daddy can beat up your daddy. Yah but what if my daddy is 55 and your daddy is 45 and my daddy at his age 45 would have been able to beat up your daddy at 45?

I don’t understand the appeal of longevity. On sports talk radio and other pre-internet sports talk longevity was not considered except perhaps in Hank Aaron vs Babe Ruth. Or Gordie Howe.

Even when I arrived at realgm in early 2,000s I don’t remember Longevity being praised. I feel like Longevity was invented by the fans of Karl Malone, Dirk, KG, Kobe and LeBron. 20 years from now if the young stars of today and those entering the league soon don’t have longevity the young majority of realgm members will reject longevity as a criteria. I think realgm will always be dominated by the young and the young will be biassed in favor of the players they grew up with.

Perhaps athletes with longevity may be here to stay due to improved training and medical staffs at least for the tall players. John Stockton may have been a fluke. It would not surprise me if KD plays until he is 40.

You may hate longevity, but if one players gives you 10 MVP-level seasons (whcih gives you a big chance on winning the title), while the other peaked a bit higher but has only 4 such seasons, then it's unreasonable to believe that the second one gives you more chance at winning the title.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I keep getting the feeling that most of Realgm members have not even seen video of pre-Duncan Robinson. I think most Realgm members are to young to remember the NBA before Duncan.

Then you are wrong, nowadays it's very easy to watch prime Robinson games.

And some people have watched them; others haven't. Plus, watching games on Youtube.com or a similar channel isn't the same as watching them live nor does it have the emotional content of having watched them as they play out, even on TV.

I think people watch NBA finals from eras before their time before they watch other playoff series. They might think they Know David Robinson because they saw him with Duncan. With 50 years of NBA to watch do they watch Domique Wilkins or Robinson.

Will they watch Robinson with Sean Elliot and Willie Anderson?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

I hate longevity.
My daddy can beat up your daddy. Yah but what if my daddy is 55 and your daddy is 45 and my daddy at his age 45 would have been able to beat up your daddy at 45?

I don’t understand the appeal of longevity. On sports talk radio and other pre-internet sports talk longevity was not considered except perhaps in Hank Aaron vs Babe Ruth. Or Gordie Howe.

Even when I arrived at realgm in early 2,000s I don’t remember Longevity being praised. I feel like Longevity was invented by the fans of Karl Malone, Dirk, KG, Kobe and LeBron. 20 years from now if the young stars of today and those entering the league soon don’t have longevity the young majority of realgm members will reject longevity as a criteria. I think realgm will always be dominated by the young and the young will be biassed in favor of the players they grew up with.

Perhaps athletes with longevity may be here to stay due to improved training and medical staffs at least for the tall players. John Stockton may have been a fluke. It would not surprise me if KD plays until he is 40.

You may hate longevity, but if one players gives you 10 MVP-level seasons (whcih gives you a big chance on winning the title), while the other peaked a bit higher but has only 4 such seasons, then it's unreasonable to believe that the second one gives you more chance at winning the title.

Still does not work for me. That is why 1984 playoffs Bernard King takes my version of Bernard King much higher on my all time great list than he gets on others lists. I have no problem mentally adding 1984 Bernard King to teams and thinking about whether those teams would win a championship.

If I am comparing Cheerios to Frosted Flakes I want to compare them when they are fresh and not consider whether one cereal has better packaging that makes them go stale more slowly.

[migya]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

Don't think Garnett's and Nowitzki's extra seasons make their careers any better. Robinson from 99-01 is more effective than both at the same point in their careers.

How is Curry's prime better? So far is been at best ten years and average defense. Robinson was a better scorer to me. Many now see shooting as the best scoring but players like Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan and Robinson show that it isn't. Give Robinson Klay in the 90s and he's scoring even more.

[migya]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

I hate longevity.
My daddy can beat up your daddy. Yah but what if my daddy is 55 and your daddy is 45 and my daddy at his age 45 would have been able to beat up your daddy at 45?

I don’t understand the appeal of longevity. On sports talk radio and other pre-internet sports talk longevity was not considered except perhaps in Hank Aaron vs Babe Ruth. Or Gordie Howe.

Even when I arrived at realgm in early 2,000s I don’t remember Longevity being praised. I feel like Longevity was invented by the fans of Karl Malone, Dirk, KG, Kobe and LeBron. 20 years from now if the young stars of today and those entering the league soon don’t have longevity the young majority of realgm members will reject longevity as a criteria. I think realgm will always be dominated by the young and the young will be biassed in favor of the players they grew up with.

Perhaps athletes with longevity may be here to stay due to improved training and medical staffs at least for the tall players. John Stockton may have been a fluke. It would not surprise me if KD plays until he is 40.

You may hate longevity, but if one players gives you 10 MVP-level seasons (whcih gives you a big chance on winning the title), while the other peaked a bit higher but has only 4 such seasons, then it's unreasonable to believe that the second one gives you more chance at winning the title.

But that's not the case when comparing Robinson, who had 8 elite seasons, to players like Garnett and Nowitzki that had at most 6 or 7 great, not necessarily elite, seasons and another 7 or 8 seasons that wouldn't rank in the top 200 seasons ever.

[AdagioPace]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

Don't think Garnett's and Nowitzki's extra seasons make their careers any better. Robinson from 99-01 is more effective than both at the same point in their careers.

How is Curry's prime better? So far is been at best ten years and average defense. Robinson was a better scorer to me. Many now see shooting as the best scoring but players like Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan and Robinson show that it isn't. Give Robinson Klay in the 90s and he's scoring even more.

it could certainly be that 34 y.o Robinson was more effective than Dirk and KG at the same age, but that was his last great season (and it was only his 9th overall...at 34)

[migya]

I have Robinson ahead of Durant, Moses, Nash and CP3.

Robinson peaked higher than Dirk to me, but Dirk's massive longevity edge and offensive resiliency is too much to overcome. Same with Julius.

I think Curry has a bit better prime, to the point that I'd rank him ahead of Robinson by now.

Garnett vs Robinson is close prime vs prime, but Garnett crushes him in longevity.

Don't think Garnett's and Nowitzki's extra seasons make their careers any better. Robinson from 99-01 is more effective than both at the same point in their careers.

How is Curry's prime better? So far is been at best ten years and average defense. Robinson was a better scorer to me. Many now see shooting as the best scoring but players like Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan and Robinson show that it isn't. Give Robinson Klay in the 90s and he's scoring even more.

it could certainly be that 34 y.o Robinson was more effective than Dirk and KG at the same age, but that was his last great season (and it was only his 9th overall...at 34)

I meant in nba years. Robinson in 99-01 was more effective than Garnett and Nowitzki ast the same stage.

[70sFan]

Then you are wrong, nowadays it's very easy to watch prime Robinson games.

And some people have watched them; others haven't. Plus, watching games on Youtube.com or a similar channel isn't the same as watching them live nor does it have the emotional content of having watched them as they play out, even on TV.

I think people watch NBA finals from eras before their time before they watch other playoff series. They might think they Know David Robinson because they saw him with Duncan. With 50 years of NBA to watch do they watch Domique Wilkins or Robinson.

Will they watch Robinson with Sean Elliot and Willie Anderson?

Yes, people watch 1990-96 Spurs games here...

[70sFan]

Don't think Garnett's and Nowitzki's extra seasons make their careers any better. Robinson from 99-01 is more effective than both at the same point in their careers.

1990-01 Robinson vs 1999-10 Garnett is a good discussion indeed, but Garnett also has 1997, 1998 and 2011-12 which gives a lot of career value. It doesn't help that Robinson didn't play in 1996/97 either, shortening his already short prime.

Dirk's relevant career is much longer than Robinson's as well: 2001-16 vs 1990-01 basically. I think Robinson was a better player, that's why I have them extremely close (18th vs 19th on my list), but it's foolish to argue that Dirk has no longevity advantage.

How is Curry's prime better? So far is been at best ten years and average defense. Robinson was a better scorer to me. Many now see shooting as the best scoring but players like Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan and Robinson show that it isn't. Give Robinson Klay in the 90s and he's scoring even more.

Curry just has one of the most impressive finals series of his career against ATG Celtics defense and you still believe that Robinson is a better scorer? The same Robinson who never scored well against quality defense in postseason? That's wishful thinking, Robinson has no case over Curry as a scorer.

[70sFan]

I hate longevity.
My daddy can beat up your daddy. Yah but what if my daddy is 55 and your daddy is 45 and my daddy at his age 45 would have been able to beat up your daddy at 45?

I don’t understand the appeal of longevity. On sports talk radio and other pre-internet sports talk longevity was not considered except perhaps in Hank Aaron vs Babe Ruth. Or Gordie Howe.

Even when I arrived at realgm in early 2,000s I don’t remember Longevity being praised. I feel like Longevity was invented by the fans of Karl Malone, Dirk, KG, Kobe and LeBron. 20 years from now if the young stars of today and those entering the league soon don’t have longevity the young majority of realgm members will reject longevity as a criteria. I think realgm will always be dominated by the young and the young will be biassed in favor of the players they grew up with.

Perhaps athletes with longevity may be here to stay due to improved training and medical staffs at least for the tall players. John Stockton may have been a fluke. It would not surprise me if KD plays until he is 40.

You may hate longevity, but if one players gives you 10 MVP-level seasons (whcih gives you a big chance on winning the title), while the other peaked a bit higher but has only 4 such seasons, then it's unreasonable to believe that the second one gives you more chance at winning the title.

But that's not the case when comparing Robinson, who had 8 elite seasons, to players like Garnett and Nowitzki that had at most 6 or 7 great, not necessarily elite, seasons and another 7 or 8 seasons that wouldn't rank in the top 200 seasons ever.

Robinson has 8 elite seasons to Garnett's 9 (2000-08) and Garnett has long, relevant post-prime career.

[Doctor MJ]

There's been much talk recently here about to 10, top 20 or so rankings. Robinson has constantly been placed around 15-20. I don't understand how some players mentioned ahead of him had better careers so give your reasonings :

Players mentioned -

Garnett, Nowitzki, Curry, DrJ, Durant, Moses, CP, Nash.

Name other players of you want.

Let's see:

Garnett - more fluid agility, quicker anticipation, better communicator, better ball handler, better facilitator, better shooter, much better longevity.

Curry - hard to compare skill vs skill, but I'm very impressed with Curry's impact on winning, and at this point have him having more Top 5 years than Robinson had.

Nowitzki & Erving - I believe I had Robinson higher last time I did the analysis. If I didn't, probably because of longevity.

Durant, Moses, CP & Nash - definitely have Robinson higher

[jdzimme3]

They aren’t, robinson is better than all of them.