20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook

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falcolombardi
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#21 » by falcolombardi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:28 pm

SpreeS wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
SpreeS wrote:Here is only one winning player…other stat’s hunter

Oh, please enlighten us on how Westbrook is not a winning player.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I can respect what WB was able to do and accomplish in those years but the only argument I see for him is that Butler missed a lot of games.

Which is an extremely compelling argument to make. I've only seen an argument for Butler (not counting dumb ****), which is his massive playoff BPM, and Westbrook has him clearly beat in that.

FTR, if he did it for a full season instead of 10 games I would take 2022 Butler over Westbrook all day.


Why is he winning player? Pl show me what he did when matters?


-looks vaguely into 2013,2014 and 2016 thunder teams-

Yeah, that
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#22 » by sp6r=underrated » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:12 pm

falcolombardi wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Westbrook, not even close.

Virgin "muh 12 BPM" vs Chad "I literally broke BPM".

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

For all people talk a lot about ceiling raising there is very little talk of how the 13 and 16 thunder are some of the best teams ever to not win a ring

The 13 thunder had a +9 srs, the 16 thunder had a +8 offense when healthy (per ben taylor). That is better than any team butler has been part of, 19 sixers included

Why is this not being considered when peopke say russ is a empty stats player at his peak?

Have curry, durant, adams, ibaka,roberson have a +8 offense and so many people would call it curry peak lol


Yup, Russ was a major contributor to championship level squads in 2012 to 2014 & 2016. I just fundamentally disagree with the image of Russ as some empty stat player. He wasn't.

You want to fault him for not aging well fair enough. A lot of player with his profile age poorly. You want to fault him for not having elite level decision making, fair enough. But this is a player who could contribute to championship level squads for most of his prime.

He was also comfortable embracing the role of franchise player in a middle of nowhere franchise (no offense OKC).
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#23 » by OhayoKD » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:13 pm

Eagle4 wrote:What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

he smoked the 70 win srs spurs, beat the 2015 clippers, took the 14 spurs to overtime of gamke 6 and took gsw to game 7.
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#24 » by OhayoKD » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:15 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Eagle4 wrote:What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

Jimmy Butler is not 90% of Westbrook's offense.

Russell Westbrook helped co-anchor a team that nearly upset the 16 GSW. He arguably out played Durant, and most people would pick Durant over Butler without much hesitation.

doesn't westbrook have an outright higher playoff plus/minus than durant over okc? His box-stats also look clearly better in 2014 and 2016
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#25 » by Eagle4 » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:12 pm

OhayoKD wrote:
Eagle4 wrote:What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

he smoked the 70 win srs spurs, beat the 2015 clippers, took the 14 spurs to overtime of gamke 6 and took gsw to game 7.

Beat the '15 Clippers? Okc didn't even make the '15 post season due to Durant's injury yet somehow I'm supposed to believe he's so much greater than Butler when he routinely flamed out of the first round repeatedly after Durant's departure. Butler's impact is just greater than Russ' dynamo, fluff play style.
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#26 » by OhayoKD » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:16 pm

Eagle4 wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:
Eagle4 wrote:What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

he smoked the 70 win srs spurs, beat the 2015 clippers, took the 14 spurs to overtime of gamke 6 and took gsw to game 7.

Beat the '15 Clippers? He didn't even play in the '15 post season.

*14
its my last message in this thread, but I just admit, that all the people, casual and analytical minds, more or less have consencus who has the weight of a rubberized duck. And its not JaivLLLL
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#27 » by SpreeS » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:56 am

sp6r=underrated wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Westbrook, not even close.

Virgin "muh 12 BPM" vs Chad "I literally broke BPM".

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

For all people talk a lot about ceiling raising there is very little talk of how the 13 and 16 thunder are some of the best teams ever to not win a ring

The 13 thunder had a +9 srs, the 16 thunder had a +8 offense when healthy (per ben taylor). That is better than any team butler has been part of, 19 sixers included

Why is this not being considered when peopke say russ is a empty stats player at his peak?

Have curry, durant, adams, ibaka,roberson have a +8 offense and so many people would call it curry peak lol


Yup, Russ was a major contributor to championship level squads in 2012 to 2014 & 2016. I just fundamentally disagree with the image of Russ as some empty stat player. He wasn't.

You want to fault him for not aging well fair enough. A lot of player with his profile age poorly. You want to fault him for not having elite level decision making, fair enough. But this is a player who could contribute to championship level squads for most of his prime.

He was also comfortable embracing the role of franchise player in a middle of nowhere franchise (no offense OKC).


What are we talking here? Guy is max second option for contending team, but full of EGO (I am the best on this planet). Also he was playing w/o defensive for years. Low work ethic (I am who I am). Low IQ.

Butler is totally opposite guy
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#28 » by famoose » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:47 am

Westbrook's athleticism and motor was so overpowered pre 2018 that it made up for a lot of fundamental flaws in his game. He was just relentless at going to the basket which gave him a lot of 'driving gravity' ala young Dwyane Wade. Defenses needed to converge towards the paint to seal of any easy gaps towards the rim and that opened up a lot of lay off and kick out opportunities for Westbrook and his team. So even if he wasn't really a cerebral player in terms of reading the defense and available passing options like a Nash or a Paul, his playmaking level was still high just by the sheer amount of simple, easy-to-read passing opportunities he'd generate with his explosiveness, which made the game very simple for him, it made up his lack of bball IQ in a significant way.

That being said, i'd probably lean towards Butler slightly in this comparison. Butler's ability to oscillate between a low volume/usage team player that just brings whatevers needed to the team at any given time, and a guy that can takeover games by dropping 30/10 on offense and do it efficiently is just more valuable to me. And i can always count on him defensively regardless. Westbrook is just too predictable, rigid and fixated in his approach. Even moreso than someone like Giannis. At least Giannis is efficient, once he gets into the paint, it's basically an automatic bucket most of the time. Westbrook not really. Giannis is also an effective screen and roll man, elite in the dunker spot or as a lob threat and can post up. So a team will have some options even if Giannis drive gave is walled off. Granted, it really was harder to wall off a player like Westbrook because he was just quicker and more explosive from a standing position, but still, his lack of 'malleability' makes me hesitant to be confident in a player like him regardless of the scenario, while this isn't really true for Butler, despite his jump shot performing dissapearing acts frequently.
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Re: 20-22 Butler vs 15-17 Westbrook 

Post#29 » by JordansBulls » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:07 pm

Westbrook as he won league mvp and averaged a triple double. That is basically Oscar Robertson
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