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Who are you taking

I think Butler at least peaked higher in the playoffs for a single season, i’m not sure I can take him over that entire stretch though. Let’s not forget Westbrook was arguably top 5 all 3 of those years.

butler played at a lower level in the regular season on average in that span and missed a lot of time

15-17 westbrook played 93% of possible regular season games versus 74% for 20-22 butler

postseason would be a clear advantage for butler even w/ the 2021 disaster series (two deep runs versus one for russ, arguably both better than 2016)

is that enough to make up for the regular season difference? maybe. depends how much you weigh it.

Butler peaks higher IMO, but Westbrook is more consistent over that 3 year span.

I'll take Jimmy. Much better playoff performer as the lead guy. He did his damage with..... Herro? Bam? Robinson? as his 2nd best offensive player? Russ has been really bad in playoffs after Kd left even when he had Pg13 and Russ didnt fall off a cliff in the Pg years or anything

Westbrook. Its close enough but Westbrook has a higher floor.

Jimmy can be erased from a series in a way Westbrook’s raw athleticism never allowed him to. I’ll grant Jimmy higher highs though.

Westbrook, not even close.

Virgin "muh 12 BPM" vs Chad "I literally broke BPM".

The answer is pretty clearly russ to me. Just extremely clear of Russ on O while being a clear + on D.

ceoofkobefans wrote:The answer is pretty clearly russ to me. Just extremely clear of Russ on O while being a clear + on D.

Are you saying here that you think Russ is better than Butler on both off and def?

I can respect what WB was able to do and accomplish in those years but the only argument I see for him is that Butler missed a lot of games. Having said that I prefer Butler. I just don't like any offense that revolves that much around a guy like WB and I prefer the toughness that Butler brings without being ball dominant. To me a WB led team is never winning a title while with Butler I think its definitely within the realm of possibility. Maybe even in 2020 if they are fully healthy.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

ceoofkobefans wrote:The answer is pretty clearly russ to me. Just extremely clear of Russ on O while being a clear + on D.

Are you saying here that you think Russ is better than Butler on both off and def?

No butler is clearly better than Russ on D but Russ is significantly better on O while still being a clear + on D which makes the O gap bigger than the D gap

ceoofkobefans wrote:

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

ceoofkobefans wrote:The answer is pretty clearly russ to me. Just extremely clear of Russ on O while being a clear + on D.

Are you saying here that you think Russ is better than Butler on both off and def?

No butler is clearly better than Russ on D but Russ is significantly better on O while still being a clear + on D which makes the O gap bigger than the D gap

idk if I can agree with the bolded without some kind of relevant info to back it up with. Which isn't to say you are wrong but there's always been a bit of perception on WB that he wasn't as dedicated on def as he could have been and more so in 2017 when he went full box score mode. I'd lean more towards positive defender earlier on, neutralish from 2014-2016 and slightly negative from 2017 on but I'd also welcome more views from people who watched him a lot in these periods. I think he dropped off a lot the last few years to where people have posted many clips of where he just seems completely lost on def.

What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

Eagle4 wrote:What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

Jimmy Butler is not 90% of Westbrook's offense.

Russell Westbrook helped co-anchor a team that nearly upset the 16 GSW. He arguably out played Durant, and most people would pick Durant over Butler without much hesitation.

HeartBreakKid wrote:

Eagle4 wrote:What exactly did Russ do in the playoffs that people are choosing him "easily"? I guess Butler's dud in '21 skews peoples minds but he was injured.

Defense wins championship and Butler can elevate his game to at least 90% of Westbrook's offense but the defense isn't even close. Butler had so many key defensive stops in this playoffs alone.

Jimmy Butler is not 90% of Westbrook's offense.

Russell Westbrook helped co-anchor a team that nearly upset the 16 GSW. He arguably out played Durant, and most people would pick Durant over Butler without much hesitation.

PSo what's the % then, do tell.

Edit: Butler averaged 27ppg in '22 while Westbrook avg 26ppg in '16 so if it isn't 90% then what is it? Either way the gap between their defense is greater than their offensive output, especially in the post season.

Russ was a top 3 player in '16 and '17 in a loaded league with LeBron, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Harden, CP3 and Draymond all at or around their peaks.

He was a monstrous player in that timeframe, it's definitely him in this comparison.

Here is only one winning player…other stat’s hunter

SpreeS wrote:Here is only one winning player…other stat’s hunter

Oh, please enlighten us on how Westbrook is not a winning player.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I can respect what WB was able to do and accomplish in those years but the only argument I see for him is that Butler missed a lot of games.

Which is an extremely compelling argument to make. I've only seen an argument for Butler (not counting dumb ****), which is his massive playoff BPM, and Westbrook has him clearly beat in that.

FTR, if he did it for a full season instead of 10 games I would take 2022 Butler over Westbrook all day.

Jaivl wrote:Westbrook, not even close.

Virgin "muh 12 BPM" vs Chad "I literally broke BPM".

For all people talk a lot about ceiling raising there is very little talk of how the 13 and 16 thunder are some of the best teams ever to not win a ring

The 13 thunder had a +9 srs, the 16 thunder had a +8 offense when healthy (per ben taylor). That is better than any team butler has been part of, 19 sixers included

Why is this not being considered when peopke say russ is a empty stats player at his peak?

Have curry, durant, adams, ibaka,roberson have a +8 offense and so many people would call it curry peak lol

Jaivl wrote:

SpreeS wrote:Here is only one winning player…other stat’s hunter

Oh, please enlighten us on how Westbrook is not a winning player.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I can respect what WB was able to do and accomplish in those years but the only argument I see for him is that Butler missed a lot of games.

Which is an extremely compelling argument to make. I've only seen an argument for Butler (not counting dumb ****), which is his massive playoff BPM, and Westbrook has him clearly beat in that.

FTR, if he did it for a full season instead of 10 games I would take 2022 Butler over Westbrook all day.

Why is he winning player? Pl show me what he did when matters?