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So, this is a nugget I find to be interesting, which I wanted to share:

If we define a "Playoff Century" for an individual to be years where he gets 100+ +/- over the course of the playoffs we get an interesting list.

Clearly it's going to be "biased" toward guys on championship teams so this isn't something to be taken too, too seriously, but of course that just makes it more intriguing when a guy makes it who didn't win the title.

So first, here are the guys who successfully recorded a Century in these playoffs:

Andrew Wiggins
Steph Curry
Draymond Green
Desmond Bane
Otto Porter
Jayson Tatum

Bane & Tatum are the guys who made it as non-champs. With Tatum, he made it kinda the classic way a guy who doesn't win the chip makes it - by having 3 winning series before the losing one.

Bane is more intriguing because he went out in the 2nd round. Clearly this is heavily influenced by the blowout game where the Warriors just kind of punted and moved on, but all through this year Bane's raw +/- numbers have been pretty amazing. My impression is that luck-adjusted versions of these stats bring Bane back down to earth, but still, keep an eye open for Bane going forward.

Okay, now to the big historical question:

From the earliest data we have like this ('96-97), which players have recorded the most Playoff Century?

1. Draymond Green 6 (all GSW)
(tie) LeBron James 6 (3 CLE, 2 MIA, 1 LAL)
3. Steph Curry 5 (all GSW)
4. Chauncey Billups 4 (3 DET, 1 DEN)
(tie) Tim Duncan 4 (all SAS)
(tie) Danny Green 4 (2 SAS, 1 TOR, 1 LAL)
7. Manu Ginobili 3 (all SAS)
(tie) Kyrie Irving 3 (2 CLE, 1 BRK)
(tie) Kawhi Leonard 3 (2 SAS, 1 TOR)
(tie) Shaquille O'Neal 3 (all LAL)
(tie) Tayshaun Prince (all DET)
(tie) Klay Thompson (all GSW)

Players who accomplished it twice:

Ray Allen, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kobe Bryant, Mario Chalmers, Kevin Durant, Joel Embiid, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Kevin Garnett, Robert Horry, Andre Iguodala, Michael Jordan, Kevin Love, Khris Middleton, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, Scottie Pippen, Dwyane Wade, Rasheed Wallace

And I'll note for Jordan & Pippen in particular, this only included their last 2 championships, so expect they'd be up there challenging Green/James/Curry as the most consistently dominant by this metric.

Other things to note:

- We're also missing Horry's Rockets' runs here.
- The year that Draymond makes it but Steph missed it was '15-16.
- LeBron's 3 Cav runs are split between his 2 separate Cavs eras. '08-09 from the first run, '15-16 & '16-17 from the second.
- I believe Billups has the record (among this data) for most times making it in a losing cause - while he made it during the '03-04 champion run, he also made it in '04-05 & '06-07 for the Pistons and '08-09 for the Nuggets.
- When we look at the Spurs, the guy who broke the Century during the most championship runs is Ginobili. Every time he got a Century the team won the title. Further, every time the Spurs won the title from '02-03 onward, Ginobili led the team in playoff +/-. Duncan by contrast won titles in 2 of his 4 centuries, and Parker won titles in 1 of his 2 centuries.

Doctor MJ wrote:So, this is a nugget I find to be interesting, which I wanted to share:

If we define a "Playoff Century" for an individual to be years where he gets 100+ +/- over the course of the playoffs we get an interesting list.

Clearly it's going to be "biased" toward guys on championship teams so this isn't something to be taken too, too seriously, but of course that just makes it more intriguing when a guy makes it who didn't win the title.

So first, here are the guys who successfully recorded a Century in these playoffs:

Andrew Wiggins
Steph Curry
Draymond Green
Desmond Bane
Otto Porter
Jayson Tatum

Bane & Tatum are the guys who made it as non-champs. With Tatum, he made it kinda the classic way a guy who doesn't win the chip makes it - by having 3 winning series before the losing one.

Bane is more intriguing because he went out in the 2nd round. Clearly this is heavily influenced by the blowout game where the Warriors just kind of punted and moved on, but all through this year Bane's raw +/- numbers have been pretty amazing. My impression is that luck-adjusted versions of these stats bring Bane back down to earth, but still, keep an eye open for Bane going forward.

Okay, now to the big historical question:

From the earliest data we have like this ('96-97), which players have recorded the most Playoff Century?

1. Draymond Green 6 (all GSW)
(tie) LeBron James 6 (3 CLE, 2 MIA, 1 LAL)
3. Steph Curry 5 (all GSW)
4. Chauncey Billups 4 (3 DET, 1 DEN)
(tie) Tim Duncan 4 (all SAS)
(tie) Danny Green 4 (2 SAS, 1 TOR, 1 LAL)
7. Manu Ginobili 3 (all SAS)
(tie) Kyrie Irving 3 (2 CLE, 1 BRK)
(tie) Kawhi Leonard 3 (2 SAS, 1 TOR)
(tie) Shaquille O'Neal 3 (all LAL)
(tie) Tayshaun Prince (all DET)
(tie) Klay Thompson (all GSW)

Players who accomplished it twice:

Ray Allen, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kobe Bryant, Mario Chalmers, Kevin Durant, Joel Embiid, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Kevin Garnett, Robert Horry, Andre Iguodala, Michael Jordan, Kevin Love, Khris Middleton, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, Scottie Pippen, Dwyane Wade, Rasheed Wallace

And I'll note for Jordan & Pippen in particular, this only included their last 2 championships, so expect they'd be up there challenging Green/James/Curry as the most consistently dominant by this metric.

Other things to note:

- We're also missing Horry's Rockets' runs here.
- The year that Draymond makes it but Steph missed it was '15-16.
- LeBron's 3 Cav runs are split between his 2 separate Cavs eras. '08-09 from the first run, '15-16 & '16-17 from the second.
- I believe Billups has the record (among this data) for most times making it in a losing cause - while he made it during the '03-04 champion run, he also made it in '04-05 & '06-07 for the Pistons and '08-09 for the Nuggets.
- When we look at the Spurs, the guy who broke the Century during the most championship runs is Ginobili. Every time he got a Century the team won the title. Further, every time the Spurs won the title from '02-03 onward, Ginobili led the team in playoff +/-. Duncan by contrast won titles in 2 of his 4 centuries, and Parker won titles in 1 of his 2 centuries.

Excellent KD-bashing thread.

Also, Manu being an All-NBA-level player who didn't start games (i.e., got run against benches) had to help his +/-.

Of note: Al Horford and Jimmy Butler barely missing out this year with +99 (!) and +95, respectively.

Kewl.

Doctor MJ wrote:So, this is a nugget I find to be interesting, which I wanted to share:

If we define a "Playoff Century" for an individual to be years where he gets 100+ +/- over the course of the playoffs we get an interesting list.

Clearly it's going to be "biased" toward guys on championship teams so this isn't something to be taken too, too seriously, but of course that just makes it more intriguing when a guy makes it who didn't win the title.

So first, here are the guys who successfully recorded a Century in these playoffs:

Andrew Wiggins
Steph Curry
Draymond Green
Desmond Bane
Otto Porter
Jayson Tatum

Bane & Tatum are the guys who made it as non-champs. With Tatum, he made it kinda the classic way a guy who doesn't win the chip makes it - by having 3 winning series before the losing one.

Bane is more intriguing because he went out in the 2nd round. Clearly this is heavily influenced by the blowout game where the Warriors just kind of punted and moved on, but all through this year Bane's raw +/- numbers have been pretty amazing. My impression is that luck-adjusted versions of these stats bring Bane back down to earth, but still, keep an eye open for Bane going forward.

Okay, now to the big historical question:

From the earliest data we have like this ('96-97), which players have recorded the most Playoff Century?

1. Draymond Green 6 (all GSW)
(tie) LeBron James 6 (3 CLE, 2 MIA, 1 LAL)
3. Steph Curry 5 (all GSW)
4. Chauncey Billups 4 (3 DET, 1 DEN)
(tie) Tim Duncan 4 (all SAS)
(tie) Danny Green 4 (2 SAS, 1 TOR, 1 LAL)
7. Manu Ginobili 3 (all SAS)
(tie) Kyrie Irving 3 (2 CLE, 1 BRK)
(tie) Kawhi Leonard 3 (2 SAS, 1 TOR)
(tie) Shaquille O'Neal 3 (all LAL)
(tie) Tayshaun Prince (all DET)
(tie) Klay Thompson (all GSW)

Players who accomplished it twice:

Ray Allen, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kobe Bryant, Mario Chalmers, Kevin Durant, Joel Embiid, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Kevin Garnett, Robert Horry, Andre Iguodala, Michael Jordan, Kevin Love, Khris Middleton, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, Scottie Pippen, Dwyane Wade, Rasheed Wallace

And I'll note for Jordan & Pippen in particular, this only included their last 2 championships, so expect they'd be up there challenging Green/James/Curry as the most consistently dominant by this metric.

Other things to note:

- We're also missing Horry's Rockets' runs here.
- The year that Draymond makes it but Steph missed it was '15-16.
- LeBron's 3 Cav runs are split between his 2 separate Cavs eras. '08-09 from the first run, '15-16 & '16-17 from the second.
- I believe Billups has the record (among this data) for most times making it in a losing cause - while he made it during the '03-04 champion run, he also made it in '04-05 & '06-07 for the Pistons and '08-09 for the Nuggets.
- When we look at the Spurs, the guy who broke the Century during the most championship runs is Ginobili. Every time he got a Century the team won the title. Further, every time the Spurs won the title from '02-03 onward, Ginobili led the team in playoff +/-. Duncan by contrast won titles in 2 of his 4 centuries, and Parker won titles in 1 of his 2 centuries.

interesting that most of the guys at the top are duos of guys with all time level plus-minus metrics (ginobili and duncan, curry and draymond, pippen amd jordan)

prince ans billups are not quite that good but the combo of an adsitive dominant wing defender and a really excellent offensive point guard has very little overlap and were two skillsers that the pistons didnt have in-built "redundancies"
(rasheed and ben could replace each other) so it makes a lot of sense that whenever those two were playing alongside either of the wallaces the pistons would thrive

but lebron and to a lesser degree shaq are alone despite having superstar level teammates in many of those runs

is a curious thingh, makes me wonder why

i am assuming shaq is the 3-peat years? i am guessing there was a fair amount of staggering kobe and shaq and kobe couldnt sustain the lakers alone as well as shaq at that stage of his career?

for lebron i suppose is 2009, 2012,2013, 2016,2017,2020

edit: i actually missed kyrie is in the list, mistake in my part

2009 is pretty clear nobody was a star player outside lebron but is interesting still that seemingly everyone on-off collapsed without bron, you would thingh at least a few of those lebron less rosters would do well in small stretches

2013 wade struggled with injury so it makes a lot of sense

2012 and 2020 when wade was still fantastic and davis was a monster are the intriguing ones, for how out of this world davis play was his +/- figures are weak without bron suggesting that lakers could replace davis skillset to a passable degree morr easily than they could replace lebron skillset

which makes sense when lebron was kinda their whole playmaking other than some rondo spurts, while they had quality backup bigs and solkd defenders all around so they could take the hit if davis sitting

i am assuming wade two years are 2006 and 2011 but maybe 2012 is one od those?

falcolombardi wrote:
interesting that most of the guys at the top are duos of guys with all time level plus-minus metrics (ginobili and duncan, curry and draymond, pippen amd jordan)

but lebron and to a lesser degree shaq are alone despite having superstar level teammates in many of those runs

is a curious thingh, makes me wonder why

In the playoffs your best players tend to play heavier minutes. So it makes sense for these to come in groupings like this.

With Shaq and Lebron while they had star teammates(outside of 06 where Wade was 1a to Shaq's 1b) they were clearly far and away the driving force of those teams. So in those minutes when they rested, their teams tended to not be nearly as effective. And 2nd best players tend to play all the minutes best players don't. Except in GSW where Draymond and Curry are so symbiotic that Kerr has largely played and rested them together historically to great effect.


To me the interesting thing about the data is less about the players and more about the teams.

falcolombardi wrote:i am assuming shaq is the 3-peat years? i am guessing there was a fair amount of staggering kobe and shaq and kobe couldnt sustain the lakers alone as well as shaq at that stage of his career?

Answering this with some data - each line from biggest number down.

Here are the Laker qualifiers:

2000 - Shaq, Horry
2001 - Kobe, Shaq, Fisher, Fox, Grant
2002 - Shaq, Fox

2008 - Fisher
2009 - Odom, Kobe, Gasol

2010 - AD, LeBron, Green, Caruso

I think the most interesting thing here is Kobe who records the highest Laker total we've seen (2001), but otherwise typically doesn't hit this threshold even when his team wins the title.

Something I'll say is that the goal of the game is to outscore the other opponent, not outscore them by as much as possible, and I do see some signs that Kobe tended to approach the game this way.

And other LeBron teams:

2009 - Williams, Ilgauskas, LeBron, West, Varejao

2012 - LeBron, Wade, Battier, Chalmers
2013 - Allen, LeBron, Anderson, Chalmers

2016 - LeBron, Smith, Love, Irving, Thompson
2017 - LeBron, Love, Irving

I think here more than anything else we're just talking about swapping out teammates and thus effectively not letting anyone player look too historically noteworthy by this metric. Very impressive that LeBron could keep doing this of course, but one might thing that LeBron's impact was so huge that he alone was crossing this threshold amongst his teammates, but nope, that's not the case.

Doctor MJ wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:i am assuming shaq is the 3-peat years? i am guessing there was a fair amount of staggering kobe and shaq and kobe couldnt sustain the lakers alone as well as shaq at that stage of his career?

Answering this with some data - each line from biggest number down.

Here are the Laker qualifiers:

2000 - Shaq, Horry
2001 - Kobe, Shaq, Fisher, Fox, Grant
2002 - Shaq, Fox

2008 - Fisher
2009 - Odom, Kobe, Gasol

2010 - AD, LeBron, Green, Caruso

I think the most interesting thing here is Kobe who records the highest Laker total we've seen (2001), but otherwise typically doesn't hit this threshold even when his team wins the title.

Something I'll say is that the goal of the game is to outscore the other opponent, not outscore them by as much as possible, and I do see some signs that Kobe tended to approach the game this way.

And other LeBron teams:

2009 - Williams, Ilgauskas, LeBron, West, Varejao

2012 - LeBron, Wade, Battier, Chalmers
2013 - Allen, LeBron, Anderson, Chalmers

2016 - LeBron, Smith, Love, Irving, Thompson
2017 - LeBron, Love, Irving

I think here more than anything else we're just talking about swapping out teammates and thus effectively not letting anyone player look too historically noteworthy by this metric. Very impressive that LeBron could keep doing this of course, but one might thing that LeBron's impact was so huge that he alone was crossing this threshold amongst his teammates, but nope, that's not the case.

could you expand on this?

Doctor MJ wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:i am assuming shaq is the 3-peat years? i am guessing there was a fair amount of staggering kobe and shaq and kobe couldnt sustain the lakers alone as well as shaq at that stage of his career?

Answering this with some data - each line from biggest number down.

Here are the Laker qualifiers:

2000 - Shaq, Horry
2001 - Kobe, Shaq, Fisher, Fox, Grant
2002 - Shaq, Fox

2008 - Fisher
2009 - Odom, Kobe, Gasol

2010 - AD, LeBron, Green, Caruso

I think the most interesting thing here is Kobe who records the highest Laker total we've seen (2001), but otherwise typically doesn't hit this threshold even when his team wins the title.

Something I'll say is that the goal of the game is to outscore the other opponent, not outscore them by as much as possible, and I do see some signs that Kobe tended to approach the game this way.

And other LeBron teams:

2009 - Williams, Ilgauskas, LeBron, West, Varejao

2012 - LeBron, Wade, Battier, Chalmers
2013 - Allen, LeBron, Anderson, Chalmers

2016 - LeBron, Smith, Love, Irving, Thompson
2017 - LeBron, Love, Irving

I think here more than anything else we're just talking about swapping out teammates and thus effectively not letting anyone player look too historically noteworthy by this metric. Very impressive that LeBron could keep doing this of course, but one might thing that LeBron's impact was so huge that he alone was crossing this threshold amongst his teammates, but nope, that's not the case.

The Lakers had Slava and Samaki Walker as backups to Shaq, so Phil played Kobe with them both often so LA didn't lose leads in the 2nd and 4th quarter. Shaq would sit the end of the 1st and first few in the 2nd, and like the first 5-6 of the 4th. So the +/- reflects the type of roster rotation they used. The late 00s Lakers mimicked that too. Phil largely used Kobe in rotation to make sure LA didn't blow lead, which was very smart. I imagine MJ would be underwhleming in +/- too

An Unbiased Fan wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:i am assuming shaq is the 3-peat years? i am guessing there was a fair amount of staggering kobe and shaq and kobe couldnt sustain the lakers alone as well as shaq at that stage of his career?

Answering this with some data - each line from biggest number down.

Here are the Laker qualifiers:

2000 - Shaq, Horry
2001 - Kobe, Shaq, Fisher, Fox, Grant
2002 - Shaq, Fox

2008 - Fisher
2009 - Odom, Kobe, Gasol

2010 - AD, LeBron, Green, Caruso

I think the most interesting thing here is Kobe who records the highest Laker total we've seen (2001), but otherwise typically doesn't hit this threshold even when his team wins the title.

Something I'll say is that the goal of the game is to outscore the other opponent, not outscore them by as much as possible, and I do see some signs that Kobe tended to approach the game this way.

And other LeBron teams:

2009 - Williams, Ilgauskas, LeBron, West, Varejao

2012 - LeBron, Wade, Battier, Chalmers
2013 - Allen, LeBron, Anderson, Chalmers

2016 - LeBron, Smith, Love, Irving, Thompson
2017 - LeBron, Love, Irving

I think here more than anything else we're just talking about swapping out teammates and thus effectively not letting anyone player look too historically noteworthy by this metric. Very impressive that LeBron could keep doing this of course, but one might thing that LeBron's impact was so huge that he alone was crossing this threshold amongst his teammates, but nope, that's not the case.

The Lakers had Slava and Samaki Walker as backups to Shaq, so Phil played Kobe with them both often so LA didn't lose leads in the 2nd and 4th quarter. Shaq would sit the end of the 1st and first few in the 2nd, and like the first 5-6 of the 4th. So the +/- reflects the type of roster rotation they used. The late 00s Lakers mimicked that too. Phil largely used Kobe in rotation to make sure LA didn't blow lead, which was very smart. I imagine MJ would be underwhleming in +/- too

Shaq would sit the first 5-6 minutes in the fourth quarter?...Unlikely since Shaq had 43,42 and 40 minutes per game in the playoffs between 2000 to 2002

Homer38 wrote:

An Unbiased Fan wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:
Answering this with some data - each line from biggest number down.

Here are the Laker qualifiers:

2000 - Shaq, Horry
2001 - Kobe, Shaq, Fisher, Fox, Grant
2002 - Shaq, Fox

2008 - Fisher
2009 - Odom, Kobe, Gasol

2010 - AD, LeBron, Green, Caruso

I think the most interesting thing here is Kobe who records the highest Laker total we've seen (2001), but otherwise typically doesn't hit this threshold even when his team wins the title.

Something I'll say is that the goal of the game is to outscore the other opponent, not outscore them by as much as possible, and I do see some signs that Kobe tended to approach the game this way.

And other LeBron teams:

2009 - Williams, Ilgauskas, LeBron, West, Varejao

2012 - LeBron, Wade, Battier, Chalmers
2013 - Allen, LeBron, Anderson, Chalmers

2016 - LeBron, Smith, Love, Irving, Thompson
2017 - LeBron, Love, Irving

I think here more than anything else we're just talking about swapping out teammates and thus effectively not letting anyone player look too historically noteworthy by this metric. Very impressive that LeBron could keep doing this of course, but one might thing that LeBron's impact was so huge that he alone was crossing this threshold amongst his teammates, but nope, that's not the case.

The Lakers had Slava and Samaki Walker as backups to Shaq, so Phil played Kobe with them both often so LA didn't lose leads in the 2nd and 4th quarter. Shaq would sit the end of the 1st and first few in the 2nd, and like the first 5-6 of the 4th. So the +/- reflects the type of roster rotation they used. The late 00s Lakers mimicked that too. Phil largely used Kobe in rotation to make sure LA didn't blow lead, which was very smart. I imagine MJ would be underwhleming in +/- too

Shaq would sit the first 5-6 minutes in the fourth quarter?...Unlikely since Shaq had 43,42 and 40 minutes per game in the playoffs between 2000 to 2002

You could be right I could be merging later Shaq with early Shaq in my head

Personally, raw +- is my most disliked stat. On theory it sounds great, but in practice, its just so clunky.

An example. Bullock vs Luka. This is not an outlier either. Might not be this extreme, but the discrepancy happens pretty regularly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202205220DAL.html

Also, for such an inaccurate stat, using a demarcation point does not seem practical.

Not to take away anything from the OP. Its very interesting data.