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2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:23 pm
by Ein Sof
I made this thread here because I'm pretty sure I'm banned from starting threads in the GB?
Anyway, Draymond had 6 ppg on a staggering 39% TS. He also played 36 mpg, so it's not like he played a couple minutes and had wacky stats. He just plain sucked at putting the ball in the basket.
But was he the worst of anyone who played at least 35 mpg in the Finals?
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:29 pm
by colts18
1997 Dennis Rodman
2.3 PPG, 5-20 FG, 3-8 FT, 29.8 TS%
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 pm
by colts18
Gary Payton had 2 of them
2004- 4.2 PPG, 32.1 FG%
2006- 2.7 PPG, 36.8 FG%
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:33 pm
by Ein Sof
colts18 wrote:1997 Dennis Rodman
2.3 PPG, 5-20 FG, 3-8 FT, 29.8 TS%
He didn't play 35 mpg but I'll take it.
That's a downright impressive level of suckitude.
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:51 pm
by penbeast0
If you are only taking 3 shots a game, it doesn't matter that much how many you make. Further, with a very small sample size of shots, you will get significantly greater variability. The question is whether Draymond, and Rodman, were doing the jobs asked of them at a level sufficient to make up for it, mainly defense and rebounding.
Is it really worse than Allen Iverson taking a staggering 661 shots in the playoffs with a ts% of 480 (.486 in the finals)?
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:59 pm
by RCM88x
I don't think so, there's a lot of them, from the Cavs alone:
2018 Jr Smith
32.5 mpg, 9.5 ppg, 44 TS%
2018 Kyle Korver
16mpg, 1.5 ppg, 16 TS%
2017 Deron Williams
12 mpg, 1 ppg, 15 TS%
2015 Jr Smith
37 mpg, 11.5 ppg, 42 TS%
2015 Iman Shumpert
36 mpg, 6.5 ppg, 40 TS%
2007 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
26 mpg, 8 ppg, 39 TS%
2007 Larry Hughes
22 mpg, 1 ppg, 10 TS%
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:02 pm
by MickeyDavis
Ein Sof wrote:I made this thread here because I'm pretty sure I'm banned from starting threads in the GB?
And this is why
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:02 pm
by penbeast0
3 under 20% ts% and all of them known as shooters . . . ouch!
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:07 pm
by Homer38
Maybe but his defensive impact was huge once again
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:23 pm
by Owly
Ein Sof wrote:colts18 wrote:1997 Dennis Rodman
2.3 PPG, 5-20 FG, 3-8 FT, 29.8 TS%
He didn't play 35 mpg but I'll take it.
That's a downright impressive level of suckitude.
2 thoughts
1) 35mpg is too high a threshold (finals is already a small sample, then you're cutting out too many more players).
2) Is Rodman worse (than Draymond)? Normally one might excuse a player middling efficiency because they're creating shots. But for a series, from a results point of view, it might be worse to lock in a higher proportion of shots at a bad percentage (even if not as bad). The small sample player could be worse in a vacuum (or unlucky) but maybe less harmful? I don't know (maybe situational, stats don't occur in a vacuum ... gravity, passing ability etc).
Anyway not to say worse but from a list of bad finals
LJ '99 (tough context in terms of league and opponent) .347222222 TS%, 7.6 ppg in 36.8 minutes (16.4 usage, 54.72 total true shot attempts)
Michael Cooper '88, .273569024 TS%, 3.7ppg, in 25.1mpg, (14.2 usage, 47.52 total tsa).
Bryant '04 and James '07 are named as some of the worse high volume series.
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 pm
by WestGOAT
Bill Russell 1969
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:42 pm
by prolific passer
Wilt in the 69 and 73 nba finals averaged 11-12ppg. Went up against an old Bill Russell and an injured Willis Reed.
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:07 am
by G35
colts18 wrote:Gary Payton had 2 of them
2004- 4.2 PPG, 32.1 FG%
2006- 2.7 PPG, 36.8 FG%
I mention this all the time but Payton was horrible in the 2004 finals but Kobe gets all the criticism. Payton played the 3rd most minutes for the Lakers in that series and made nine shots in five games.
G1: 1-4 FG
G2: 1-3
G3: 2-7
G4: 4-11
G5: 1-3
That was a terrible series for the Glove.....
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:17 am
by homecourtloss
RCM88x wrote:I don't think so, there's a lot of them, from the Cavs alone:
2018 Jr Smith
32.5 mpg, 9.5 ppg, 44 TS%
2018 Kyle Korver
16mpg, 1.5 ppg, 16 TS%
2017 Deron Williams
12 mpg, 1 ppg, 15 TS%
2015 Jr Smith
37 mpg, 11.5 ppg, 42 TS%
2015 Iman Shumpert
36 mpg, 6.5 ppg, 40 TS%
2007 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
26 mpg, 8 ppg, 39 TS%
2007 Larry Hughes
22 mpg, 1 ppg, 10 TS%
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:37 am
by 70sFan
prolific passer wrote:Wilt in the 69 and 73 nba finals averaged 11-12ppg. Went up against an old Bill Russell and an injured Willis Reed.
Reed wasn't injured in 1973.
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:29 pm
by KobesScarf
Considering the era yes this was the worst ever
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:16 pm
by cupcakesnake
I'm not sure what the point is of focusing on Draymond's scoring. That's not where his value comes from.
Ben Wallace in his 2 finals appearances, didn't happen to have horrendous scoring numbers, but he had plenty of absolute non-scoring series. 2.4ppg on 27%ts in 31.1mpg against the Bucks in 2006. But does anyone really care? His job, like Draymond's, was anchoring an elite historic defense over half a decade.
It's like deciding to open a thread to focus on Klay's rim protection in the finals. Worst rim protection performance of all-time? Who gives a ****?
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:22 pm
by prolific passer
70sFan wrote:prolific passer wrote:Wilt in the 69 and 73 nba finals averaged 11-12ppg. Went up against an old Bill Russell and an injured Willis Reed.
Reed wasn't injured in 1973.
He was pretty banged up for the remainder of his career after 71. He only averaged 11 and 9 in 27mpg in 73.
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:53 am
by Ein Sof
Owly wrote:Ein Sof wrote:colts18 wrote:1997 Dennis Rodman
2.3 PPG, 5-20 FG, 3-8 FT, 29.8 TS%
He didn't play 35 mpg but I'll take it.
That's a downright impressive level of suckitude.
2 thoughts
1) 35mpg is too high a threshold (finals is already a small sample, then you're cutting out too many more players).
2) Is Rodman worse (than Draymond)? Normally one might excuse a player middling efficiency because they're creating shots. But for a series, from a results point of view, it might be worse to lock in a higher proportion of shots at a bad percentage (even if not as bad). The small sample player could be worse in a vacuum (or unlucky) but maybe less harmful? I don't know (maybe situational, stats don't occur in a vacuum ... gravity, passing ability etc).
Anyway not to say worse but from a list of bad finals
LJ '99 (tough context in terms of league and opponent) .347222222 TS%, 7.6 ppg in 36.8 minutes (16.4 usage, 54.72 total true shot attempts)
Michael Cooper '88, .273569024 TS%, 3.7ppg, in 25.1mpg, (14.2 usage, 47.52 total tsa).
Bryant '04 and James '07 are named as some of the worse high volume series.
1) It's not that 35 mpg is some great cutoff point, but that playing worse for longer is worse.
2) I'm not discussing overall impact here. Obviously Rodman was a tremendous rebounder/defender. But if he were a great scorer too, that would've been even better. I don't see why not.
I don't think 2007 LeBron or 2004 Kobe really have a place ITT.
Re: 2022 Draymond - worst scoring performance in NBA Finals history?
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:07 am
by PhiEaglesfan712
RCM88x wrote:I don't think so, there's a lot of them, from the Cavs alone:
2018 Jr Smith
32.5 mpg, 9.5 ppg, 44 TS%
2018 Kyle Korver
16mpg, 1.5 ppg, 16 TS%
2017 Deron Williams
12 mpg, 1 ppg, 15 TS%
2015 Jr Smith
37 mpg, 11.5 ppg, 42 TS%
2015 Iman Shumpert
36 mpg, 6.5 ppg, 40 TS%
2007 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
26 mpg, 8 ppg, 39 TS%
2007 Larry Hughes
22 mpg, 1 ppg, 10 TS%
Everyone on the 2018 Cavs not named LeBron deserves to be on this list. You know the rest of a team is dog meat when it doesn't win a game in the series despite LeBron scoring like 51 points.