Where would Bird be ranked nowadays on your all-time list had he won in 1987.

coastalmarker99 · Post #1 » by **coastalmarker99** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:04 pm

Say that Bird hits this shot at the end of game 4 and then Boston goes to win the finals in a massive upset against the Lakers as they did in 1984.

Watch on YouTube

Where would Bird rank on your all-time list?

With
4 rings
3 finals MVPs
3 MVP's

And a 2 1 record vs Magic in the finals despite playing on inferior teams.

Jaivl · Post #2 » by **Jaivl** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:08 pm

coastalmarker99 · Post #3 » by **coastalmarker99** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:12 pm

Jaivl wrote:#12

It is confusing that you still would rank him so low.

As Bird despite his poor longevity would have too many accolades not to be ranked as a top ten player of all-time.

As only a handful of players have won 3 MVP's and 3 finals MVP's to go along with 4 rings.

scrabbarista · Post #4 » by **scrabbarista** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:36 pm

I have him 11th now. Such a scenario would probably put him fifth. Maybe sixth.

I know people will say, "One shot shouldn't matter that much!"

I'd respond, "But it does!"

scrabbarista · Post #5 » by **scrabbarista** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:58 pm

Rewatching it, the real "failure" may've been McHale, Bird, and Parish's inability to secure the rebound on Kareem's free throw. Reminds me of 2013 when the Spurs didn't rebound LeBron's missed three in Game 6.

70sFan · Post #6 » by **70sFan** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:20 pm

Assuming he'd play the same way, I'd have him at the same spot. Maybe I'd entertain his case for 10th spot more, but I doubt it.

Curry just won his 4th ring and he's not inside my top 10 yet.

ty 4191 · Post #7 » by **ty 4191** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:00 pm

70sFan wrote:Assuming he'd play the same way, I'd have him at the same spot. Maybe I'd entertain his case for 10th spot more, but I doubt it.

Curry just won his 4th ring and he's not inside my top 10 yet.

I don't usually put emphasis on rings, as that's almost entirely a function of teammates, coaching, management, ownership. Which is outside a player's control.

Do you agree or disagree?

Dutchball97 · Post #8 » by **Dutchball97** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:04 pm

Bird's ranking is a bit weird. I have him 8th at the moment and I feel like just about everyone disagrees with me on that. Either people see him as a top 5 lock and anything lower is disrespectful or they have him outside the top 10 due to not so great longevity.

Another ring wouldn't really change anything for me though.

70sFan · Post #9 » by **70sFan** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:08 pm

ty 4191 wrote:
70sFan wrote:Assuming he'd play the same way, I'd have him at the same spot. Maybe I'd entertain his case for 10th spot more, but I doubt it.

Curry just won his 4th ring and he's not inside my top 10 yet.

I don't usually put emphasis on rings, as that's almost entirely a function of teammates, coaching, management, ownership. Which is outside a player's control.

Do you agree or disagree?

I mostly agree, although I wouldn't say that rings are all outside a player's control. Great players in great situations usually can win it all.

With that said, I agree that using ring argument is horrible idea.

ty 4191 · Post #10 » by **ty 4191** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:18 pm

70sFan wrote:I mostly agree, although I wouldn't say that rings are all outside a player's control. Great players in great situations usually can win it all.

With that said, I agree that using ring argument is horrible idea.

Kareem was BY FAR the most impactful, valuable, greatest player from 1974-1975 through 1978-1979. It's actually laughable, how dominant and awesome he was.

Yet....his teams missed the playoffs entirely in 75' and 76', and, had an overall win loss record of 8-14 in the playoffs those years, with no serious chance at winning a championship. Not even close.

This proves my point. And, I'm glad you agree.

migya · Post #11 » by **migya** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:10 pm

Still top ten and still ahead of Magic.

RCM88x · Post #12 » by **RCM88x** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:19 pm

The same as he does now.

homecourtloss · Post #13 » by **homecourtloss** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:08 pm

Pretty much the same as he is now unless the Celtics won because of Bird’s incredible play, which would be another discussion.

That Lakers team was a GOAT type offensive machine and the Celtics’ defense didn’t slow them down as the Lakers scored efficiently throughout the series (as had Bucks and Pistons before the Lakers). Kind of amazing to think how much if a defensive difference ‘86 Walton made. McHale, Parish, Ainge, and DJ played well enough for them to win, but Bird was outplayed by Magic in that series. Turn that around and Bird’s ranking goes a few spots up.

LAL1947 · Post #14 » by **LAL1947** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:55 pm

coastalmarker99 wrote:Say that Bird hits this shot at the end of game 4 and then Boston goes to win the finals in a massive upset against the Lakers as they did in 1984.

Where would Bird rank on your all-time list?

With
4 rings
3 finals MVPs
3 MVP's

And a 2 1 record vs Magic in the finals despite playing on inferior teams.

I have Larry at #4 in my list, perhaps with some nostalgia creeping in there and trying to make amends for all those years gone by when I'd cuss him out and put my Lakers guys over him, haha.

If he'd won this title, I'd have him over Lebron at #3.

SNPA · Post #15 » by **SNPA** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:58 pm

Same. Top five.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #16 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:25 pm

ty 4191 wrote:
Kareem was BY FAR the most impactful, valuable, greatest player from 1974-1975 through 1978-1979. It's actually laughable, how dominant and awesome he was.

Yet....his teams missed the playoffs entirely in 75' and 76', and, had an overall win loss record of 8-14 in the playoffs those years, with no serious chance at winning a championship. Not even close.

This proves my point. And, I'm glad you agree.

The whole missing the playoffs thing back then doesn't mean near as much then as it does from the mid 80's forward and even then it can depend greatly on which conference a player is in. I mean this year the Celtics won 51 games and were the first seed I think in the east while in some years 47 wins wasn't even getting you into the playoffs in the west. I think we need to retire that phrase to some degree.

No-more-rings · Post #17 » by **No-more-rings** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:36 pm

3/4 of the Lakers victories were blowouts. So it likely would’ve taken a significantly better performance from Bird to win that finals. In some alternate scenario where he plays a decent amount better plus they win the series, I could see him trading spots with Magic which is just one spot.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #18 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:10 pm

Similar rank for me. All it would really take is McHale being healthy. Maybe instead of 9-10 I'd have him 7-8 where I used to.

ceoofkobefans · Post #19 » by **ceoofkobefans** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:48 am

The same place he currently ranks (12th) because I do not value accolades and team accomplishments in my all time rankings.

OhayoKD · Post #20 » by **OhayoKD** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:55 am

coastalmarker99 wrote:
Jaivl wrote:#12

It is confusing that you still would rank him so low.

As Bird despite his poor longevity would have too many accolades not to be ranked as a top ten player of all-time.

As only a handful of players have won 3 MVP's and 3 finals MVP's to go along with 4 rings.

I mean his accolades are cool, but i don't think his peak was on the same level as lebron, hakeem, jordan, duncan, shaq, curry, magic or kareem. tbh, i think even kg was probably better in 04. Not even sure i'd take him over kobe, dirk or wade for a season.

Wilt/Russell are obviously #1 and #2 peaks if you just go by in-era dominance so it's hard to argue for bird over them too.

Combine them with his really bad longetivity and i don't think he's top 10