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Say that Bird hits this shot at the end of game 4 and then Boston goes to win the finals in a massive upset against the Lakers as they did in 1984.



Where would Bird rank on your all-time list?

With
4 rings
3 finals MVPs
3 MVP's

And a 2 1 record vs Magic in the finals despite playing on inferior teams.

#12

Jaivl wrote:#12

It is confusing that you still would rank him so low.

As Bird despite his poor longevity would have too many accolades not to be ranked as a top ten player of all-time.


As only a handful of players have won 3 MVP's and 3 finals MVP's to go along with 4 rings.

I have him 11th now. Such a scenario would probably put him fifth. Maybe sixth.

I know people will say, "One shot shouldn't matter that much!"

I'd respond, "But it does!"

Rewatching it, the real "failure" may've been McHale, Bird, and Parish's inability to secure the rebound on Kareem's free throw. Reminds me of 2013 when the Spurs didn't rebound LeBron's missed three in Game 6.

Assuming he'd play the same way, I'd have him at the same spot. Maybe I'd entertain his case for 10th spot more, but I doubt it.

Curry just won his 4th ring and he's not inside my top 10 yet.

70sFan wrote:Assuming he'd play the same way, I'd have him at the same spot. Maybe I'd entertain his case for 10th spot more, but I doubt it.

Curry just won his 4th ring and he's not inside my top 10 yet.

I don't usually put emphasis on rings, as that's almost entirely a function of teammates, coaching, management, ownership. Which is outside a player's control.

Do you agree or disagree?

Bird's ranking is a bit weird. I have him 8th at the moment and I feel like just about everyone disagrees with me on that. Either people see him as a top 5 lock and anything lower is disrespectful or they have him outside the top 10 due to not so great longevity.

Another ring wouldn't really change anything for me though.

ty 4191 wrote:

70sFan wrote:Assuming he'd play the same way, I'd have him at the same spot. Maybe I'd entertain his case for 10th spot more, but I doubt it.

Curry just won his 4th ring and he's not inside my top 10 yet.

I don't usually put emphasis on rings, as that's almost entirely a function of teammates, coaching, management, ownership. Which is outside a player's control.

Do you agree or disagree?

I mostly agree, although I wouldn't say that rings are all outside a player's control. Great players in great situations usually can win it all.

With that said, I agree that using ring argument is horrible idea.

70sFan wrote:I mostly agree, although I wouldn't say that rings are all outside a player's control. Great players in great situations usually can win it all.

With that said, I agree that using ring argument is horrible idea.

Kareem was BY FAR the most impactful, valuable, greatest player from 1974-1975 through 1978-1979. It's actually laughable, how dominant and awesome he was.

Yet....his teams missed the playoffs entirely in 75' and 76', and, had an overall win loss record of 8-14 in the playoffs those years, with no serious chance at winning a championship. Not even close.

This proves my point. And, I'm glad you agree.

Still top ten and still ahead of Magic.

The same as he does now.

Pretty much the same as he is now unless the Celtics won because of Bird’s incredible play, which would be another discussion.

That Lakers team was a GOAT type offensive machine and the Celtics’ defense didn’t slow them down as the Lakers scored efficiently throughout the series (as had Bucks and Pistons before the Lakers). Kind of amazing to think how much if a defensive difference ‘86 Walton made. McHale, Parish, Ainge, and DJ played well enough for them to win, but Bird was outplayed by Magic in that series. Turn that around and Bird’s ranking goes a few spots up.

coastalmarker99 wrote:Say that Bird hits this shot at the end of game 4 and then Boston goes to win the finals in a massive upset against the Lakers as they did in 1984.

Where would Bird rank on your all-time list?

With
4 rings
3 finals MVPs
3 MVP's

And a 2 1 record vs Magic in the finals despite playing on inferior teams.

I have Larry at #4 in my list, perhaps with some nostalgia creeping in there and trying to make amends for all those years gone by when I'd cuss him out and put my Lakers guys over him, haha.

If he'd won this title, I'd have him over Lebron at #3.

Same. Top five.

ty 4191 wrote:
Kareem was BY FAR the most impactful, valuable, greatest player from 1974-1975 through 1978-1979. It's actually laughable, how dominant and awesome he was.

Yet....his teams missed the playoffs entirely in 75' and 76', and, had an overall win loss record of 8-14 in the playoffs those years, with no serious chance at winning a championship. Not even close.

This proves my point. And, I'm glad you agree.

The whole missing the playoffs thing back then doesn't mean near as much then as it does from the mid 80's forward and even then it can depend greatly on which conference a player is in. I mean this year the Celtics won 51 games and were the first seed I think in the east while in some years 47 wins wasn't even getting you into the playoffs in the west. I think we need to retire that phrase to some degree.

3/4 of the Lakers victories were blowouts. So it likely would’ve taken a significantly better performance from Bird to win that finals. In some alternate scenario where he plays a decent amount better plus they win the series, I could see him trading spots with Magic which is just one spot.

Similar rank for me. All it would really take is McHale being healthy. Maybe instead of 9-10 I'd have him 7-8 where I used to.

The same place he currently ranks (12th) because I do not value accolades and team accomplishments in my all time rankings.

coastalmarker99 wrote:

Jaivl wrote:#12

It is confusing that you still would rank him so low.

As Bird despite his poor longevity would have too many accolades not to be ranked as a top ten player of all-time.


As only a handful of players have won 3 MVP's and 3 finals MVP's to go along with 4 rings.

I mean his accolades are cool, but i don't think his peak was on the same level as lebron, hakeem, jordan, duncan, shaq, curry, magic or kareem. tbh, i think even kg was probably better in 04. Not even sure i'd take him over kobe, dirk or wade for a season.

Wilt/Russell are obviously #1 and #2 peaks if you just go by in-era dominance so it's hard to argue for bird over them too.

Combine them with his really bad longetivity and i don't think he's top 10