RealGM

Forget contract, who's the better player right now

0 votes for All-def team and 2nd in voting for DPOY

Wiggins has a better diverse offensive game and his defense is at least as good.

migya wrote:Wiggins has a better diverse offensive game and his defense is at least as good.

???

Also, Mikal Bridges is a better offensive player...versatility means little at the cost of effectiveness. Mikal Bridges is much better at moving without the ball than Wiggins and more importantly better at actually making shots. Bridges is better than Wiggins at cutting and shooting.

Wiggins is better at....uh..isolating into a spin move. That's great, but at the end of the day he scores on league average efficiency while playing with the best shooters in the league. Someone like Bridges would be better on the Warriors than Wiggins.


Bridges averaged more free throws made than Wiggins did in the playoffs despite his Wiggins supposedly having a playstyle that should be better for that. Elaborate more on what you mean by Wiggins has a more diverse offensive game.

HeartBreakKid wrote:

migya wrote:Wiggins has a better diverse offensive game and his defense is at least as good.

???

Also, Mikal Bridges is a better offensive player...versatility means little at the cost of effectiveness. Mikal Bridges is much better at moving without the ball than Wiggins and more importantly better at actually making shots. Bridges is better than Wiggins at cutting and shooting.

Wiggins is better at....uh..isolating into a spin move. That's great, but at the end of the day he scores on league average efficiency while playing with the best shooters in the league. Someone like Bridges would be better on the Warriors than Wiggins.


Bridges averaged more free throws made than Wiggins did in the playoffs despite his Wiggins supposedly having a playstyle that should be better for that. Elaborate more on what you mean by Wiggins has a more diverse offensive game.

Wiggs can creat own shots and huge plus compared with Bridges (Ast'd 2P -.83 3P - 1.00) in PO. Bridges offence depends completely from other team players. He moves w/o ball way better than Wiggs and its ok, but he cant take a ball and win a PO game like Wiggs did in G5 with BOS.

Defence. Wiggs is more physical, he defends way better bigger/stronger wings, dont afraid contact. Also way better rebounder and the most important he has 54 O-reb in these PO.

Bridges looks way better when everything is ok, but against better teams with elite wings or good defences, he totally disappears, b/c doesnt have ISO game.

I still take Mikal here but the fact that Wiggins' development made me at least think about it is already amazing.

SpreeS wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:

migya wrote:Wiggins has a better diverse offensive game and his defense is at least as good.

???

Also, Mikal Bridges is a better offensive player...versatility means little at the cost of effectiveness. Mikal Bridges is much better at moving without the ball than Wiggins and more importantly better at actually making shots. Bridges is better than Wiggins at cutting and shooting.

Wiggins is better at....uh..isolating into a spin move. That's great, but at the end of the day he scores on league average efficiency while playing with the best shooters in the league. Someone like Bridges would be better on the Warriors than Wiggins.


Bridges averaged more free throws made than Wiggins did in the playoffs despite his Wiggins supposedly having a playstyle that should be better for that. Elaborate more on what you mean by Wiggins has a more diverse offensive game.

Wiggs can creat own shots and huge plus compared with Bridges (Ast'd 2P -.83 3P - 1.00) in PO. Bridges offence depends completely from other team players. He moves w/o ball way better than Wiggs and its ok, but he cant take a ball and win a PO game like Wiggs did in G5 with BOS.

Defence. Wiggs is more physical, he defends way better bigger/stronger wings, dont afraid contact. Also way better rebounder and the most important he has 54 O-reb in these PO.

Bridges looks way better when everything is ok, but against better teams with elite wings or good defences, he totally disappears, b/c doesnt have ISO game.

On paper Bridges looks better on both ends. #10 RAPM, .627 TS% including 63% on 6.7 2PAs/game, almost 3:1 assist:TO ratio, 2nd in DPOY voting. Practically the ideal supporting player. Statistically, Bridges blows Wiggins away.

But as Spree noted, Wiggins has come compensating advantages that stand out in the playoffs. He is capable of being a creative scorer, though not reliably. Wiggins is clearly better man-on-man defensively vs ultra high talent wings which is not surprising since Wiggins himself is ultra talented at least in the physical department. His defense on both Luka and Tatum was outstanding. Worst offensive series of Luka's young career by far. Not that this is decisive but if you swap the players as they are now, Phoenix makes it to at least the WCF.

Overall Wiggins will never be as good at basketball as Bridges but he can still offer competitive value in the playoffs when your team needs players who can create their own shot and the likelihood of facing a great wing scorer at some point is high if you make a deep run.

rand wrote:

SpreeS wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:
???

Also, Mikal Bridges is a better offensive player...versatility means little at the cost of effectiveness. Mikal Bridges is much better at moving without the ball than Wiggins and more importantly better at actually making shots. Bridges is better than Wiggins at cutting and shooting.

Wiggins is better at....uh..isolating into a spin move. That's great, but at the end of the day he scores on league average efficiency while playing with the best shooters in the league. Someone like Bridges would be better on the Warriors than Wiggins.


Bridges averaged more free throws made than Wiggins did in the playoffs despite his Wiggins supposedly having a playstyle that should be better for that. Elaborate more on what you mean by Wiggins has a more diverse offensive game.

Wiggs can creat own shots and huge plus compared with Bridges (Ast'd 2P -.83 3P - 1.00) in PO. Bridges offence depends completely from other team players. He moves w/o ball way better than Wiggs and its ok, but he cant take a ball and win a PO game like Wiggs did in G5 with BOS.

Defence. Wiggs is more physical, he defends way better bigger/stronger wings, dont afraid contact. Also way better rebounder and the most important he has 54 O-reb in these PO.

Bridges looks way better when everything is ok, but against better teams with elite wings or good defences, he totally disappears, b/c doesnt have ISO game.

On paper Bridges looks better on both ends. #10 RAPM, .627 TS% including 63% on 6.7 2PAs/game, almost 3:1 assist:TO ratio, 2nd in DPOY voting. Practically the ideal supporting player. Statistically, Bridges blows Wiggins away.

But as Spree noted, Wiggins has come compensating advantages that stand out in the playoffs. He is capable of being a creative scorer, though not reliably. Wiggins is clearly better man-on-man defensively vs ultra high talent wings which is not surprising since Wiggins himself is ultra talented at least in the physical department. His defense on both Luka and Tatum was outstanding. Worst offensive series of Luka's young career by far. Not that this is decisive but if you swap the players as they are now, Phoenix makes it to at least the WCF.

Overall Wiggins will never be as good at basketball as Bridges but he can still offer competitive value in the playoffs when your team needs players who can create their own shot and the likelihood of facing a great wing scorer at some point is high if you make a deep run.

I am huge adv stats suporter, but need to admit that these stats dont work for every player. Looking at Klay career adv stats, he won't be close to TOP300 players. Looking at Kobe adv stats, it screams more about TOP50, but not all time great.

Guess, who had the best total +/- in these PO?

1. Wiggs +140
2. Curry +121
3. Green +117
5. Bane +114

Wiggs impact is here and he is better player than Bridges.

Roughly equal tbh.

SpreeS wrote:

rand wrote:

SpreeS wrote:
Wiggs can creat own shots and huge plus compared with Bridges (Ast'd 2P -.83 3P - 1.00) in PO. Bridges offence depends completely from other team players. He moves w/o ball way better than Wiggs and its ok, but he cant take a ball and win a PO game like Wiggs did in G5 with BOS.

Defence. Wiggs is more physical, he defends way better bigger/stronger wings, dont afraid contact. Also way better rebounder and the most important he has 54 O-reb in these PO.

Bridges looks way better when everything is ok, but against better teams with elite wings or good defences, he totally disappears, b/c doesnt have ISO game.

On paper Bridges looks better on both ends. #10 RAPM, .627 TS% including 63% on 6.7 2PAs/game, almost 3:1 assist:TO ratio, 2nd in DPOY voting. Practically the ideal supporting player. Statistically, Bridges blows Wiggins away.

But as Spree noted, Wiggins has come compensating advantages that stand out in the playoffs. He is capable of being a creative scorer, though not reliably. Wiggins is clearly better man-on-man defensively vs ultra high talent wings which is not surprising since Wiggins himself is ultra talented at least in the physical department. His defense on both Luka and Tatum was outstanding. Worst offensive series of Luka's young career by far. Not that this is decisive but if you swap the players as they are now, Phoenix makes it to at least the WCF.

Overall Wiggins will never be as good at basketball as Bridges but he can still offer competitive value in the playoffs when your team needs players who can create their own shot and the likelihood of facing a great wing scorer at some point is high if you make a deep run.

I am huge adv stats suporter, but need to admit that these stats dont work for every player. Looking at Klay career adv stats, he won't be close to TOP300 players. Looking at Kobe adv stats, it screams more about TOP50, but not all time great.

Guess, who had the best total +/- in these PO?

1. Wiggs +140
2. Curry +121
3. Green +117
5. Bane +114

Wiggs impact is here and he is better player than Bridges.

What I meant by "Wiggins will never be as good at basketball as Bridges" wasn't that Bridges was a better player but that most of his skills are superior to Wiggins. Bridges moves without the ball better, shoots massively better at 0-3, 3-10 and 10-16, has almost double Wiggins assist:TO ratio, runs the floor better, plays better team defense and he does all these things with less talent (though still talented). These things are all skills and if Wiggins could have developed them as well as Bridges he would be an enormously better player than currently.

I would not trade Wiggins for Bridges because the things Wiggins is better at are more valuable in the playoffs and both of these teams should take making the playoffs for granted. Like I said earlier, swap Wiggins and Bridges and PHX gets to the WCF at least.

I think Bridges RAPM is a pretty accurate estimation of his value this regular season. Playoff RAPM would have extremely little weight but I have no doubt it would be down considerably from his regular season in 2022. Conversely I'm sure Wiggins playoff RAPM would be much better than his very modest regular season.

Here come all the "lets overrate wiggins now that he had a good series in the finals" threads.... lmao

So, I'm a bit surprised at the dismissive tone toward Wiggins here, and I speak as someone who has been championing Bridges since the Bubble.

Fundamentally:

No one should be skeptical that Wiggins is a greater physical talent than Bridges.

If you've let Wiggins' disappointing years in Minnesota as a failed volume scorer convince you he can't possibly be as good as Bridges, then I think you need to remember why Wiggins was a #1 pick one year out of high school while Bridges was a mid-to-low lottery pick after 3 years of college.

None of that means that Wiggins IS a better player than Bridges necessarily, but we're not talking about a "one good series" thing here. We're talking about Wiggins being a killer defensive matchup against elite wing-sized players in these playoffs in a way that Bridges simply was not.

Doctor MJ wrote:So, I'm a bit surprised at the dismissive tone toward Wiggins here, and I speak as someone who has been championing Bridges since the Bubble.

Fundamentally:

No one should be skeptical that Wiggins is a greater physical talent than Bridges.

If you've let Wiggins' disappointing years in Minnesota as a failed volume scorer convince you he can't possibly be as good as Bridges, then I think you need to remember why Wiggins was a #1 pick one year out of high school while Bridges was a mid-to-low lottery pick after 3 years of college.

None of that means that Wiggins IS a better player than Bridges necessarily, but we're not talking about a "one good series" thing here. We're talking about Wiggins being a killer defensive matchup against elite wing-sized players in these playoffs in a way that Bridges simply was not.

I'll add to this: if Wiggins' reinvention as a rebounding wing is something sustainable, people will need to re-evaluate his impact.

I was a huge Wiggins skeptic and as recently as April was clamoring for a Wiggins + Wiseman trade to bring back Kyle Kuzma/KCP/Kelly Olynynk. But for whatever reason, Wiggins turned into prime Gerald Wallace for the Warriors in this championship run and his work on the glass, particularly the offensive glass, was invaluable.

I'd like to think, despite all prior evidence and instances of Wiggins reverting back to a pumpkin after a good 15-20 game stretch, that his work on the glass might be sustainable. My hope is that the success he and the Warriors had with him committing to defense and rebounding will encourage him to stay within that lane next season. Wiggins' shot selection cleaned up a lot in the playoffs and the nauseating long 2's and Kobe-style fadeaway were mostly taken in bailout situations. I think that Poole's late-season emergence and first-round playoff run helped clarify the Warriors' pecking order in a way that was immensely useful to Wiggins. I think if Poole hadn't popped and turned himself into Damian Lillard for a 6-week stretch that Wiggins would have likely tried to command more touches. That obviously would not have been a good thing for this Warriors' team.

One advantage Wiggins has is he can guard bigger guys like Luka while Luka can torch Bridges since he is too small and weak.

This comparison thread is happening with a pretty extreme snapshot moment. Perception of Wiggins has never been higher, while Bridges was part of a surprising meltdown that has a lot of people questioning everyone involved. For the entirety of the past 2 seasons (until the last 3 months), I would imagine that neutral fans would have voted Bridges overwhelmingly. At the time of this post, Wiggins is leading 12-8.

I'm a lifelong Wiggins fan. I'm a Canadian that used to play pick up against his Ontario high school teammates. He was frustrating in his time with the Wolves, and I've called him the worst 2-way off-ball player I've ever seen. I always said that with a player of his athletic profile, he needs to make on the smallest improvements to suddenly be quite good. He clearly responded well to Warrriors coaching, maximized his on-ball defense, shored up his off-ball defense, and made a living as a catch & shoot guy with the added bonus of being an ultra-athletic close out attacker.

As Warriors Analyst just said, I'd like to see if that rebounding is sustainable, or if loafing, inattentive Wiggins is still a risk to come back.

Wiggins just played the best basketball of his life. Or at least the best sustained stretch since high school! I'm keeping my ball in Bridges court for now, based off a much larger body of work. Wiggins has the higher ceiling here, as he's always been a top shelf wing prospect. Bridges is 3 years younger, the better passer, better shooter, more proven defender. I've always been a touch skeptical of wing defenders like Bridges who mostly guard guards and are too skinny to guard the league's scariest covers (large scoring wings). Bridges might never have Wiggins' juice off the bounce, but Wiggins juice off the bounce isn't that special, and I like Bridges all-around package a little bit more.

I obviously have watched a lot more Wiggins than I have Bridges, but I'm always impressed by Mikal when I watch the Suns. Extremely high IQ on both ends of the floor.

Can he slide down to the 4 at all? Or too small/slight? Because Wiggins ability to hold his own as a small ball 4 was huge for us this year