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Was thinking about this a bit. I honestly don't think there are 10 guys I'd select over Robinson.

I feel confident about 4 or 5 guys. But beyond that? Hard to say.

We don't have +/- data for the first few years of his career but he was an absolutely incredible defender with amazing tools.

All players who played 79-80 to the present are eligible here.

What do you all think?

David Robinson is a very safe pick for Center. Difference between picking a guy and choosing who had a better career. I'd definitely pick Robinson over Shaq. Him and Hakeem is a bit of a toss up, you're pretty much choosing between personalities at that point.

ceiling raiser wrote:Was thinking about this a bit. I honestly don't think there are 10 guys I'd select over Robinson.

I feel confident about 4 or 5 guys. But beyond that? Hard to say.

We don't have +/- data for the first few years of his career but he was an absolutely incredible defender with amazing tools.

All players who played 79-80 to the present are eligible here.

What do you all think?

I think he's arguably the most physically gifted and skilled center of the entire 3 point era. Physical freak. Total all around ATG Center.

If he doesn't break his foot in December 1996- and, never really recovered- can you imagine how devastating he would have been?

Before that injury: 25.6/11.8/3.1 with 3.6 blocks and 1.7 steals per game.

After: 15.2/9.2/1.7 with 2.2 blocks and 1.1 steals per game.

This is going to evolve (devolve?) into Shaq vs. Hakeem vs. D-Rob.

Maybe it should? Their careers overlapped a ton; I think we should compare them directly.

You can fit him in that ten, for sure. I'd take Duncan, Jordan, Kareem, Dirk, and LeBron over him. Then things get a lot more open, with Kobe, Stockton, Magic, Bird, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, Hakeem Olajuwon, Stephen Curry, Hakeem Olajuwon, Antetokounmpo, and Jokic all coming into play - but yeah, you could put Robinson sixth on that list (after LeBron), and it wouldn't be a big deal. That's as good spot for him as any.

When you say "3 point era" are you saying any year after 1980 or since 2015?

What's your city? Your money situation? Does DRob have an equal chance to play his full pro career as other greats or does he still have the Navy obligation at one end and the injury at the other?

ty 4191 wrote:This is going to evolve (devolve?) into Shaq vs. Hakeem vs. D-Rob.

Maybe it should? Their careers overlapped a ton; I think we should compare them directly.

1. I assume that our "modern" team would only have 2 centers, right?

2. And we aren't going to cheat and try to slide somebody like Robinson or Dream over to PF, right? Wait, Giannis is a PF, right?!

3. Kareem was still awesome in the early 80s. Plus underrated Moses. And overrated Ewing. Plus Jokic. So we got 7 total centers to choose from. Oh and Dwight (yeah, right). Like I said, 7 total lol.

4. Ty4191 raises an excellent question. First things first, who has the relevant Head to Head Results handy?! Being able to hold era/rules/competition constant is wonderful for valid interpretations. "Within Era" comparisons may be the only meaningful kind, after all.

I love Ceiling Raiser's starting question.
I have follow-up questions... will somebody please help? or am I supposed to figure these out on my own?

I. Are we talking about (a) One Peak Season, or (b) Full Prime Stretch, or (c) Actual Full Career?

II. Are we pretending that we can make our own Dream Team, or that we are actually in a league with multiple teams? If there are more than 10 teams, wouldn't the Admiral inevitably be a first pick by somebody even if not one of the 1st ten taken? Or are we simply asking that on our own team's Big Board Draft where would he rank?

III. What is up with this whole "3-point era" premise? Are we assuming that all Centers need to shoot like Embiid/Jokic/etc? Because this is a whole can of worms regarding Time Machine Questions. It's cool that we have some sweet shooting Centers now. But you airdrop Prime Shaq into this league and they will all quickly become barbeque chicken. No?! He was lucky if his range extended to 13 feet (too bad the Free Throw Line was a bridge too far). So yeah it would be an uneven team, sure, but he would foul out everybody lickety-split. Total Domination. Speaking of the Time Machine, if I had a choice of Prime Shaq for 40 games in a season or a full 80 games of sweet-shooting KAT, just take a wild guess which I would choose.

Any guidance would be appreciated, so that when I make a vague muddled argument against the Admiral, at least I will have a clue as to why it lands with a thud.

(PS - thank you PenBeast)

I feel pretty strongly about taking these players over him for this era

Lebron
Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Curry
Garnett
Hakeem
Giannis

Curry/KG/Hakeem fit this era more than Robinson to me. Giannis is on his way to having better career than DRob and actually played in this era so he deserves benefit of the doubt.

After that it gets slightly more debatable with players like Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Shaq, Jokic, Dirk, Malone, Oscar, West, etc. I think I would be to find 2 of those players to put over Robinson.

It's not too unlikely. He's generally ranked around top 20 all time and by only looking at players after 1980 he already moves up a couple of spots. He'd pass Russell, West, Oscar, Wilt and (for some) Mikan. Assuming guys with careers split before and after the introduction of the 3 point line only count for their play after 1980 as well that'd move Robinson past Kareem, Dr J and Moses as well.

So my top 10 would then become something like:
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Tim Duncan
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Steph Curry
10. Kevin Garnett

Robinson, Dirk, Karl Malone and KD just miss out.

I'm assuming this is for the modern NBA. For a modern comp I could see Drob as being around the same level as Giannis in this NBA, who has had a BITW case since 2019(Better on defense, probably worse on offense). If you view him that optimistically than I think he has a case to go in the back half of a top 10 with certain players losing more value. I voted Shaq as #3 on the current goat peaks thread and there's really no chance i'd take him over Robinson if you would just port them to today's league, mainly because his defensive problems and the changes in officiating. Shaq's weight/body type is also just not that realistic for an athlete in the league rn at all. Robinson might even look better offensively now than he did in his era

I would definitely take Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Steph, KD, Giannis. After that it gets fuzzy.

I don't understand this push for DRob lately.

If you're talking about their entire careers, then no I don't see him in the top 10. I'd take LeBron, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Kobe, Bird, Dirk, Garnett and Curry all over him off the top of my head. That's 13 guys.

It also depends heavily on what kind of draft you're running and what the pool is. If I knew I could pair him with a perimeter star like Manu or Jimmy, who would be second round picks, he might be bumped up because that's a really good fit.

But on his own, no, he's not there for me.

3 pt era =/= current league

I would feel pretty comfortable with Bron, Jordan, Kareem, Duncan, KG, Hakeem, Kobe, Magic, Bird and Curry at the very least, so yup, more than 10.

10 centers or 10 players? There are easily more than 10 players you'd take over him but if we're talking 10 Centers then he's definitely top 10

If no banging and not having to deal with a Shaq or Hakeem for sure take Robinson.

In an ATD with only players from 80-22 I’m taking

91 MJ
13 LeBron
04 KG
00 Shaq
16 Steph
86 Bird
03 Duncan
94 Hakeem
80 Kareem
08 Kobe
17 Kawhi
17 KD
87 Magic(?)

Over Drob. That’s 13 players at most