2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah but none of what Durant is doing hurts other people. He's only disappointing them because he doesn't fit their model of how a player should act, what his loyalty to teams should look like and so forth. And yes, he's petty on social media and he should behave himself better as a man in his mid-30s who ostensibly should have learned to just deal with stuff at this stage in his life. But that's not "bad," that's just... sad and disappointing.

I think you're making this too complicated:

When you say mean things to others, that's action that can cause hurt.

When you sign a contract with an employer who then proceeds to plan by doing things like hiring other people to help make the most out of your experience, and then you demand out, that's action that can cause hurt.

When you ask someone to uproot their life to work with you and then you leak a demand they be fired, that's action that can cause hurt. Simple as that.

I can appreciate wanting to make a distinction between "playing hardball in business" and hurting people in everyday life, but:

1. We shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking the former doesn't trickle down to the latter.

2. The idea of the distinction is based on a "nothing personal, it's just business" attitude, which absolutely doesn't hold true in the case of Durant whose decision making has been so driven by negative emotions. You can't say, "Nothing personal, but I'm going to enjoy watching you suffer after you made me suffer."

I mean, that's what a lot of people here are doing with Durant...

As I say: It's in all of us.

Important not to delude ourselves into thinking that our meanness is an entirely different animal from that of the "bad people".

[tsherkin]

As I say: It's in all of us.

Important not to delude ourselves into thinking that our meanness is an entirely different animal from that of the "bad people".

You don't need to tell me that normal folks can do bad things, heh. I think what I'm saying is that what Durant does is benign enough that I find it difficult to call him a "bad person" for sport-related things. Because sports don't really matter at all, so some hurt feelings over what team he went to or what he's doing with his contract don't really mean anything. I take your point, though; there are certainly negative behaviors of which he is guilty, and outside that sport context, they would be more of issue. That said, and circling back, I think given the way he was raised and the environment in which he came to adulthood and all that, I generally think it's more a surprise when a star ISN'T an entitled little child, to be honest. We see the same thing with movie stars and so forth.

[falcolombardi]

Wanted to share some of my thoughts watching orlando vs bulls in 1996 cause honestly there is a lot to analize to understand how such a talented team like orlando was destroyed like that (as great as chicago was utah in 97 and seattle in 96 played them way closer without being more talented than orlando imo)

https://youtu.be/Rhdym57Uj7Y

20:30 shaq is oddly passive in the first possesion of the game, not making any effort to gain better position off ball on longley and settles for a long hook he misses.

20:40 questionable defense on jordan-pippen pick and roll, there is no real need or benefit for a 3rd player to innefectively go after jordan there rather than stay in position to be in the way of a pippen drive. Innefective defensive decisions and pointless hero block attenpts will be a recurrimg theme for orlando

21:10 wasting shaq athletism in the lob. The orlando player throws a really low lob that longley can reach without jumping or even fully raising his arms

21:20 longley is not exactly a post up maestro but shaq couldnt have been more static defending his post up hook. Shaq static-ness in defense Makes it easy for longley to set up his move and score

22:15 five orlando players are inside the bulls paint in the scoring attempt while pippen takes a steb back that gives him a head start for a open fastbreak. Even for the 90's having no one further back as a line lf defense in case of a fastbreak is really bad tactics. You dont need all your team to crash the boards

22:30 notice luc longley boxing out shaq. A unsung hero of this game

22:35. Compare the amount of orlando players behind bulls players as the fastbreak starts, notice how many bulls players there are at the end of the fastbreak vs orlando ones. Magic fastbreak defense was shambolic to start this game

Bulls had 4 players box out shaq below the rim and still got to the fastbreak with a numbers advantage

23:40 Nice pass by jordan throwing a long half court entry pass to a running longley. Notice longley effort in the fastbreak and how pointless shaq jump to block him before longley even starts shooting is as it gets him out of the play and forces orlando defense break. There are 3 players at the rim ball watchingfor longley and no one realizes pippen is behind them and needs to be boxed out for the board. Orlando defense is completely out of sync

27:10 shaq screens for penny and the defense is preocuppied with shaq roll so they leave a opening for penny impressive athletism to shine with a drive and dunk. Orlando should have spammed shaq/penny plays much more than they did

27:50 first big mistake play of bulls, longley fromts shaq but every other bulls is outside the paint so shaq has a easy dunk of a catch

31:40 i want to talk about this play....a lot

First shaq is being fronted but fights with longley to
get post up position. Here the orlando player could have send a lob shaq direction or wait for him to gain good position before sending the entry pass

Instead he does neither but waits for shaq to get post up position and -JUST- as shaq gets his hips past longley he -NOW- sends a lob

Shaq insane athletism bails him out as he is able to still get to the lob sooner thsn the slower footed longley but needs a second to control the ball and gets swarmed

Shaq is triple teamed and jordan....dunno, tries to four team him from behind a bulls teammate (there is literslly no path for jordan to go for a steal as his teammates are literally "boxing him out" from shaq with their triple team swarm)

Shaq jumps and decides to pass but misses jordan man (jordan is doing the most pointless 4-teaming i have seen in a while) who was in his line of vision and coukd have attacked the rim or shot a open jumper

He passes to penny but jordan leaving his man to (technically) 4-team shaq puts him in position to close out on penny. Who gets called for a dubious travel when he drives by jordan close out

32:10 refs call a questionanle travel on bulls the next play to even it out lmao

32:40 great drive and finish by penny, what a impressive player

33:00 best orlando defensive sequence so hard and it ends in a contested longley long 2 going in lol. If you notice longley is having some surprising impact out there

33:20 it worked....but again, notice from how far away shaq started his post up compared to peak lakers shaq who would bully his way into deep positions before the entry pass

Maybe longley is low key really strong, maybe shaq lower weight actually made him a less effective off ball player which is unusual (by not letting him gain deep position so easily), maybe he was just not putting in effort off ball for a better catch position

Regardless shaq stsrted his post up from needlessly far out early in the clock. That it went in doesnt mean it was a good play

33:30 beatiful pass by pippen, longley goes for du....block by hardaway. Hardaway ruined pippem highlighr behind the back assist on the break to longley (can i insist how impressive longley has been? Specislly his hustle running) with a lebron on iguodala kind of block

Then he uses a headfake to misdirect the bulls fastvreak defense and getting the trailing anderson a wide open 3....that he misses. Seriously penny is freaking good

34:05 shaq lazy box out lets LUC LONGLEY (unironically best bulls player of the quarter) steal a unacceptsble offensive board off him, he passes to rodman who shows his underated passing with an accurate and quick pass to the cutting pippen. Pippen misses but rodman started running for the offensive board the instant he passed so he gets the tip in. Rodman was kind of impactful

42:35. Orlando had been too error free in the second half of the quarter (yes most of all what i wrote above happened in 6 minutes) so they make a turnover in the inbound after a bulls score and let bulls score again a second later. Talk about momentum killers

43:00 orlando player calls out the ref for bulls illegal defense. He is right (seriously what a dumb rule that was) but refs ignores it.

42:15 jordan with his first impressive play of the game at the end of the quarter with the finish through contact

45:12 penny answers back with a impressive drive and hook. But is concerning magic has needed to rely so hard in penny individual brillance

Rest of the game went kinda like this

Orlando for all their athletism and size struggles to execute in both ends against such a quality rival

Shaq is dissapointingly "low energy" in both ends limiting his off-ball impact strongly
He also was unaceptabky passive in the defensive boards as was most of the magic

Bulls size and power with rodman strenght/athletism and longely unheralded defense and boxing out kept shaq off the boards and shaq failed to apply off ball pressure to get hinself into good positions to catch as most of his post ups started off the high post

Bulls are a impressive running team but orlando made it easy with rarely running hard or positioning players in positions they can defend the break. They dont put so much effort in running back as the bulls in running forward

They dont use shaq/penny combo and let them both play alone in offense where penny actually did a good job but not a winning strategy

Orlando is supremely talented but they struggle to execute as a team in either end, falling to execute fundamentals or running plays effectively in offense

[ronnymac2]

The greatest disappointment of that era was not seeing Orlando at its 90s best vs. Chicago at its 90s best at some point. 1996 was our (the viewer's) best shot, but the Horace Grant injury ruined it. I believe Chicago still wins, but it would have been a much more competitive series.

Grant put up 18/11 on 65% shooting and celebrated on his former home floor, breaking the mystique of MJ and Pip and leading the cooler, new gen superstars of the era, O'Neal and Hardaway, over the older Bulls. He was such an amazing "connector" piece for ORL's duo because he was an excellent pick-n-pop threat with Penny, had hi-low synergy with O'Neal, and could still hit the offensive glass when Shaq was face-guarded by two defenders. He was the team's best defender as well. He wasn't the best player in that 1995 series, but I do honestly believe he was the most valuable.

Remember, Orlando was an extremely talented but flawed team. They had no bench, poor coaching, and even their vaunted starting lineup only had one ball-handler. Anderson and Scott don't have ball-handling skills and weren't great decision-makers. Grant WAS a great decision-maker, so without him being able to help out as a pressure-release and passer, ORL could never get in offensive sync as CHI pressed and trapped a lot. That's one of the reasons why Shaq was having trouble getting position and in some games amping up his USG%.

Shaq and Penny both played great. Nobody else averaged double figures in the series. That'll never get it done against one of the best teams ever.

Semi-related, I know people are into getting all these plus-minus and RAPM stats from the 1990s. What is infinitely more valuable would be getting our hands on the Nielsen TV Ratings from this era. I'm assuming two global superstars who competed on the court, in movie theaters, and in Stride Rite in Shaq and MJ would blow the door off the hinges for these series in 1995 and 1996. Especially with Rodman (Madonna + hairstyle) and lil Penny drawing viewers as well. Was this the apex of NBA ratings? That would be the question I want answered. I would pay a small amount of money on the NBA data black market to find out.

[Doctor MJ]

As I say: It's in all of us.

Important not to delude ourselves into thinking that our meanness is an entirely different animal from that of the "bad people".

You don't need to tell me that normal folks can do bad things, heh. I think what I'm saying is that what Durant does is benign enough that I find it difficult to call him a "bad person" for sport-related things. Because sports don't really matter at all, so some hurt feelings over what team he went to or what he's doing with his contract don't really mean anything. I take your point, though; there are certainly negative behaviors of which he is guilty, and outside that sport context, they would be more of issue. That said, and circling back, I think given the way he was raised and the environment in which he came to adulthood and all that, I generally think it's more a surprise when a star ISN'T an entitled little child, to be honest. We see the same thing with movie stars and so forth.

It's fortunate for KD that he chose to devote his life around something that doesn't matter so that he could get rich, famous, and treat everyone around him like dirt without qualifying as behaving badly, eh?

Please forgive the tongue in cheek T. You're trying to keep folks from being overly judgmental and negative toward him and that's admirable, I just think the more important point here is to recognize the roots of the behavior across the human experience.

Re: see the same thing with movie stars. Indeed, and I'd take the same issues with them. I'd note though that generally young actors go through a time where they are treated like nobodies, whereas men who were recognized as outlier athletic talents in major sports have a unique opportunity to go through their formative years with everyone around them treating them like they are better than other people, and so have the opportunity to get more profoundly ego-f'ed at a young age.

To circle back to Strauss' book one more time, one of the things he talks about that other people around the league were talking about was how profoundly unhappy many modern NBA superstars seemed to be - with Durant being at the top of the list.

I think at bottom with KD, we're talking about someone dealing with a) being unhappy, and b) having a lot of power. Whenever someone is in this situation, they are ripe to hurt others.

[RCM88x]

To circle back to Strauss' book one more time, one of the things he talks about that other people around the league were talking about was how profoundly unhappy many modern NBA superstars seemed to be - with Durant being at the top of the list.

I think at bottom with KD, we're talking about someone dealing with a) being unhappy, and b) having a lot of power. Whenever someone is in this situation, they are ripe to hurt others.

I feel like this kind of applies to everyone these days, at least people in this country. Very rarely do people who seem genuinely happy, especially those in the public light like this. Doesn't seem entirely isolated to NBA stars.

Makes you wonder what factors are pushing him down this route.

[Peregrine01]

To circle back to Strauss' book one more time, one of the things he talks about that other people around the league were talking about was how profoundly unhappy many modern NBA superstars seemed to be - with Durant being at the top of the list.

It's certainly an interesting phenomenon, though it perhaps shouldn't come across as surprising. I think a fundamental part of all this is that the modern celebrity/public figure/superstar athlete tends to be quite isolated. It's almost a natural occurrence that these people withdraw in their own shells, which makes them increasingly more paranoid, suspicious and generally negative. IMO, what's going on with famous people is a little microcosm of what's going on with modern society at large.

Certainly, KD has done a lot of things to isolate himself - from leaving OKC and justifying it by trashing the org, to leaving GSW in a constant state of melancholy and now this. In every one of these big decisions, he ended up making them in response to all the criticisms of him (he failed to win championships in OKC, couldn't win without Steph, and now the window is closing on him at 34). I don't feel much sympathy for him but can understand why someone like him feels the way he does.

[Doctor MJ]

To circle back to Strauss' book one more time, one of the things he talks about that other people around the league were talking about was how profoundly unhappy many modern NBA superstars seemed to be - with Durant being at the top of the list.

I think at bottom with KD, we're talking about someone dealing with a) being unhappy, and b) having a lot of power. Whenever someone is in this situation, they are ripe to hurt others.

I feel like this kind of applies to everyone these days, at least people in this country. Very rarely do people who seem genuinely happy, especially those in the public light like this. Doesn't seem entirely isolated to NBA stars.

Makes you wonder what factors are pushing him down this route.

Great point.

I actually think the biggest thing is the draw of anger. We tend to associate anger as a "negative emotion", as if being angry is an unpleasant experience. In reality, being angry often feels better than the alternative - particularly when that anger is focused away from oneself. Anger tends to burn away self-doubt and fear.

I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a man in 2020. This was a perfectly friendly conversation because I kept it that way, but the man I was talking too was full of political talking points and he said one thing I'll never forget. When he talked about his daily routine, he talked about "getting my hate on in the morning".

It was clear what he meant - he was turning on his political talking head of choice, and filling himself with righteous anger. That was how he ginned himself up for the day - by focusing on "hate" as if it was a good thing. For him, hating others was empowering.

I'll add that this man was retired military, and this fits a lot with my experience growing up in a military town. To a warrior, things like anger & hate, can give you the strength to face the possibility of death with courage. The problem comes when you're trying to actually get along with people.

As folks can probably guess, this man was on the right-wing, but to be clear, this certainly happens to people on the left as well. It's the polarization - the taking of sides above all else - that's the problem. And of course, it's not even only a broad scale political thing. It can happen with your schoolmates, co-workers, frenemies, etc.

As I say all of this:

I'm not saying that the draw of anger is so strong that it always trumps all other emotions. Rather, the draw comes in as a cure to things like fear, uncertainty, doubt, and anything that causes a lack of fulfillment, and these are things that exist in copious quantities in our modern society unfortunately.

[sp6r=underrated]

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/americans-fewer-friends-survey-b1890794.html

“Signs suggest that the role of friends in American social life is experiencing a pronounced decline,” the study said. “The May 2021 American Perspectives Survey finds that Americans report having fewer close friendships than they once did, talking to their friends less often, and relying less on their friends for personal support.”

The Survey Center based its findings on interviews with 2,019 Americans, aged 18 and up, from all 50 states and Washington, DC.

The results were concerning. Close to half of those surveyed – 49 per cent – said they only had three or fewer close friends.

One source of unhappiness is the shrinkage of people's social circle.

[sp6r=underrated]

Rate these guys for intangibles:

1. KD
2. Shaq
3. Wilt

[Dr Positivity]

Rate these guys for intangibles:

1. KD
2. Shaq
3. Wilt

Shaq
Wilt
KD

[tsherkin]

It's fortunate for KD that he chose to devote his life around something that doesn't matter so that he could get rich, famous, and treat everyone around him like dirt without qualifying as behaving badly, eh?

Genetic lottery to the rescue, right?

Please forgive the tongue in cheek T. You're trying to keep folks from being overly judgmental and negative toward him and that's admirable, I just think the more important point here is to recognize the roots of the behavior across the human experience.

I get you. I'd counter, however, that we over-invest ourselves in people who do not materially impact our lives and thus negatively affect our lives as a result. Getting too angry about someone like KD isn't worth it, because in the end, apart from bread-and-the-games, the NBA (and, indeed, any sport) is nothing more than distraction and recreation. I'd argue the most mature behavior to discuss is how not to let such things run our blood to boil, knowing full well that I've been guilty of the same more than once, heh.

To circle back to Strauss' book one more time, one of the things he talks about that other people around the league were talking about was how profoundly unhappy many modern NBA superstars seemed to be - with Durant being at the top of the list.

Sure, but their profound unhappiness comes from a lack of perspective in many cases. Obviously, you'll have those who used basketball as an escape from unpleasantness of one sort or another, but you're still ending up with piles of people escaping a bad situation. Their issue then becomes not discovering the unlimited freedom and adoration they were expecting, and running into the limitations of celebrity.

I think at bottom with KD, we're talking about someone dealing with a) being unhappy, and b) having a lot of power. Whenever someone is in this situation, they are ripe to hurt others.

For varying definitions of 'hurt,' sure.

[falcolombardi]

A*shole =/= bad person

There is a huge gulf inbetween those two thinghs

"Jerk with a hearth of gold" is a phrase that exists for a reason as some people are unpleasant to be around, arrogant, etc but have their morals straight for more important thinghs

Then you have the actual bad persons who can do awful stuff like physically or emotionally hurt others with abuse

[Dr Positivity]

Rewatching GSW DEN and the Nuggets replacing Cousins with the dreaded Deandre this offseason is painful to me. Cousins looks like one of the best backup Cs in the league and the bench with him and Bones doesn't look that bad considering Jokic's regular season on/off. I guess he must have been a dick. If he's been well behaved, someone like Drummond receiving more attention seems crazy to me.

I like GSW strategy against Jokic, seems like playing him to score but trying to defend against his assists. Draymond is easily the best defender against him but they save it until the 4th quarter to try to put them away with it, like Curry Draymond pick and roll in the past. The ending in game 3 is a great Draymond moment.

Poole looked amazing in the first three games, I know he disappears in the last 2 showing consistency problems right now, but overall I really like his talent level, potentially dominant shooter (36% 3 last year but best FT shooter in the league is as good indicator, plus high volume with off the dribble ability), his on ball/passing game has potential, and don't think he's a lost cause on D. Klay is still really valuable to me with the fear factor of his 3pt.

[Doctor MJ]

A*shole =/= bad person

There is a huge gulf inbetween those two thinghs

"Jerk with a hearth of gold" is a phrase that exists for a reason as some people are unpleasant to be around, arrogant, etc but have their morals straight for more important thinghs

Then you have the actual bad persons who can do awful stuff like physically or emotionally hurt others with abuse

I would argue that the traits of the a*shole and the traits of the "bad person" have a massive overlap, and it's those traits we shouldn't be ignoring simply because they exist in a non-essential space.

I'd also say that the problem with using a term like "a*shole" is that it is not specific.

Do we mean someone doesn't care if he hurts people as a matter of course, but who looks to be a hero with the stakes are high?

Do we mean someone who actively enjoys hurting others but channels this sadism toward something positive?

Do we mean someone who with poor impulse control but good intentions?

Do we mean someone who generally behaves friendly in most interpersonal interactions but can become sadistic with the right trigger?

Worth clarifying what you're referring to when thinking of KD specifically.

[ronnymac2]

I'm beginning to appreciate James Harden's attitude, rationality, and on-court play much more in the wake of various dramas caused by star players.

Harden enters the league as a high pick on a rising young team. Normally, a guy like him is given the reigns early on, but OKC already has two high-end young perimeter talents, so James starts just seven of his first 226 games. In his third season, he is correctly identified as a beast of a player and comes into his own forming to this day the most synergistic, dangerous offensive perimeter trio in NBA history. And Harden is the primary decision-maker when they are on the court together - and Westbrook and Durant don't object. Impressive stuff.

He was a 22 y/o durable kid with All-NBA level talent who just made the Finals. But his GM did not want to pay him. So he gets traded and locks up his $80 million. Next five seasons he plays in 395 out of a possible 410 games (96.3% availability in the "DNP-Maintenance" era) and averages 27/8/6 on good but not great teams with good but not great supporting casts.

Finally he gets to play with a legit All-NBA level talent in HOU but a guy who controls the ball a lot. Despite this being a possible recipe for on-court friction and diminishing returns, HOU hits 8 SRS and gives a disgusting superteam all it could handle. If only Chris Paul's physiology didn't break in 50% of his playoff runs...

Paul, despite not having actually accomplished anything of consequence compared to his costars (this could extend back to LA with Blake), is quite difficult to deal with as a coworker because he nitpicks and is harsh. So HOU/Harden bring in a former compadre in RW. I put this squarely on Chris Paul for not having the wherewithal to know whose team it is and continuing to behave like he did in LA.

Harden at that point had never shown an inability to work with others. Harden pressing for a trade that still in his mind allows HOU to compete is rational (and good for HOU as well). He had positive professional history with Westbrook. Last time they shared a team bus, they also shared an NBA Finals floor.

Harden and RW have a decent but disappointing 2020 season. Westbrook doesn't like the "unprofessional" culture and tone set by Harden, and Harden sees the title window closing and management diminishing. They both want out. Harden requests a trade but still plays with HOU. Harden requests a trade to a team with high-end talent that could conceivably compete and gets his wish.

Obviously when he gets there, he sees the insanity (plus injuries) and leaves to greener pastures playing with a true superstar in Embiid. Now he's presumably taking less money to improve the team with a handshake deal that down the line he will be taken care of. So long as he and Philly management weren't idiots who put this down in text messages, this is a smart play on both sides. The NBA's investigation is smoke and mirrors to appear like they care about this stuff.

What can we ding him for?

1. HOU's team culture (as per RW)
2. Injuries the past two seasons

I believe Westbrook's concerns and believe they possibly caused issue number 2. After a decade of outstanding durability, Harden's games missed is concerning. At the same time...30 y/o millionaire who wants to party and have fun and enjoy life and cuisine, while not seeing any negative results from the past decade of doing what he was doing...who wouldn't hit up the world-renowned Texas strip clubs? 38,000 minutes into his career though and we're seeing lingering injury. Maybe his up-front financial "sacrifice" signals he is serious about taking one last shot at contending and adds a bit more discipline as well.

Only other thing I would ever personally ding him for is allowing that garbage Moreyball strategy to stunt his progress. Moreyball is annoying but fine for role players, not superstars. Harden didn't work on his post game enough.

He's not a perfect superstar or franchise player, but relatively speaking, he is a dream. He personally gets along with everybody, even other superstars, of which he has been willing to play with many. Aside from the past two seasons, he's been available and a minutes eater. Obviously he's very talented on the court. He is willing to play hurt and compete.

IIRC, he even makes good investments off the court (Body Armor). Big contract with Adidas. Good marketing gimmick with the beard. Never been in trouble with the law.

Removing Giannis, Luka, and Jokic for lack of longevity, who else since 2010 would you entrust your franchise with assuming you believe you are a competent GM? I think only LBJ and GSW at this point. Harden is available, marketable, rational, and talented.

[parsnips33]

Rewatching GSW DEN and the Nuggets replacing Cousins with the dreaded Deandre this offseason is painful to me. Cousins looks like one of the best backup Cs in the league and the bench with him and Bones doesn't look that bad considering Jokic's regular season on/off. I guess he must have been a dick. If he's been well behaved, someone like Drummond receiving more attention seems crazy to me.

I like GSW strategy against Jokic, seems like playing him to score but trying to defend against his assists. Draymond is easily the best defender against him but they save it until the 4th quarter to try to put them away with it, like Curry Draymond pick and roll in the past. The ending in game 3 is a great Draymond moment.

Poole looked amazing in the first three games, I know he disappears in the last 2 showing consistency problems right now, but overall I really like his talent level, potentially dominant shooter (36% 3 last year but best FT shooter in the league is as good indicator, plus high volume with off the dribble ability), his on ball/passing game has potential, and don't think he's a lost cause on D. Klay is still really valuable to me with the fear factor of his 3pt.

I was super surprised they let Boogie watch. Obviously a favorable matchup for him offensively, but I thought he played great against us

[eminence]

Depending a bit on how you define 'generation' I do think Harden has a strong argument for #2 in his generation (to Curry) with KD also worth considering for that slot. Maybe Kawhi/Dame/AD among the slightly younger group can pull it together and make a run at it, but I'd say highly unlikely as of now.

Which is a pretty dang impressive feat in a competitive era.

[Dr Positivity]

Depending a bit on how you define 'generation' I do think Harden has a strong argument for #2 in his generation (to Curry) with KD also worth considering for that slot. Maybe Kawhi/Dame/AD among the slightly younger group can pull it together and make a run at it, but I'd say highly unlikely as of now.

Which is a pretty dang impressive feat in a competitive era.

I kind of feel like Giannis is in "his generation" based on those MVP races, obviously it's a little arbitrary though, depending on how much Harden bounces back Giannis prime could extend way beyond Harden's making it seem like they're less in the same generation

[falcolombardi]

Depending a bit on how you define 'generation' I do think Harden has a strong argument for #2 in his generation (to Curry) with KD also worth considering for that slot. Maybe Kawhi/Dame/AD among the slightly younger group can pull it together and make a run at it, but I'd say highly unlikely as of now.

Which is a pretty dang impressive feat in a competitive era.

I kind of feel like Giannis is in "his generation" based on those MVP races, obviously it's a little arbitrary though, depending on how much Harden bounces back Giannis prime could extend way beyond Harden's making it seem like they're less in the same generation

There is a 5 year age gap between giannis and harden. That is a bit too much for me to group as the same generation just because harden peak overlapped with the start of giannis prime

If harden can be in the same generstion as a guy 5 years younger he also can be in the same generation as a guy five years older (lebron) and at that point it just would feel too much to group lebron and giannis as extremes of a single generation when there is a 10 year gap