2018: LeBron v TOR

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2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#1 » by uberhikari » Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:41 pm

I hadn't looked up the 2018 Raptors in a long time. But that team won 59 games and had a 7.29 SRS. They were 2nd in Ortg, 5th in Drtg, and were 2nd in Nrtg with at 7.9. Historically speaking that is an elite team.

Somehow they got swept by LeBron. Was this the best one-man army series of all time? I was thinking Hakeem in 94 but none of the teams he beat had an SRS or Nrtg this high.

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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#2 » by Colbinii » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:02 pm

Yeah.

34.0/8.3/11.3/1.8/1.0, 45 Assists to 8 Turnovers [5.625 AST/TO ratio] on 35.7 USG%. The 47.4 AST% to 6.4 TOV% is unheard of.

The rest of the Cavaliers were efficient as well. Smith, Korver and Green were 31/54 from 3 with 21 assists to 3 turnovers.

It could be the greatest offensive series ever--127.3 Ortg with 6.7 TOV% and 58.2 eFG% as a team
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#3 » by Homer38 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:14 pm

LeBronto!
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#4 » by Cavsfansince84 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:26 pm

On 58% ts also but while only hitting 19-33 ft's. He could have easily made that 27-33 which adds 2 more ppg.
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#5 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:50 pm

uberhikari wrote:I hadn't looked up the 2018 Raptors in a long time. But that team won 59 games and had a 7.29 SRS. They were 2nd in Ortg, 5th in Drtg, and were 2nd in Nrtg with at 7.9. Historically speaking that is an elite team.

Somehow they got swept by LeBron. Was this the best one-man army series of all time? I was thinking Hakeem in 94 but none of the teams he beat had an SRS or Nrtg this high.



Oddly enough, the fact they got swept makes the result handwaved away

If cavs lost game 1 and the series went to 6 with similar results overall it would be much more valued
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#6 » by Cyrusman122000 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:39 pm

This series was over after game 1

Raptors we’re in control almost the whole game at home and then lost the game late in the 4th. If I remember correctly it may have gone to OT. The raptors needed that game 1 at Home to start the series off mentally. Once they lost that game, the series was over.
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#7 » by homecourtloss » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:15 pm

Cyrusman122000 wrote:This series was over after game 1

Raptors we’re in control almost the whole game at home and then lost the game late in the 4th. If I remember correctly it may have gone to OT. The raptors needed that game 1 at Home to start the series off mentally. Once they lost that game, the series was over.


What was interesting was how many times the Cavs came back. Usual a team falls band by 15 and spends the game trying to catchup. The Cavs caught up like 3-4 times only for the deficit to grow again. It’s rare you see that type of win on the road.

Also, the Cavs were basically given a zero percent chance for a sweep or even winning in 5.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23364079/espn-forecast-nba-playoffs-predicting-makes-east-finals

ZERO PERCENT chance that Cavs win in 4 or 5 against Toronto according to statistical models but afterwards it’s just, “LOOL, TORONTO. THEY WERE SCARED.” Toronto had a superior team in every way and so much so that forecasting models literally gave the Cavs zero chance to win in 4 or even 5. Everyone everywhere felt that it was the end of the road for Lebron and the team was toast against Toronto, which was reasonable considering that the Raps had a very good team AND the Cavs were largely outplayed by the Pacers in round 1.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#8 » by Homer38 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:32 pm

Against Toronto,it was the only playoffs series in 2018 that LBJ had some help by his teammates
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#9 » by Homer38 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:35 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:On 58% ts also but while only hitting 19-33 ft's. He could have easily made that 27-33 which adds 2 more ppg.



It was because of game 1(he had still 13 assists and only 1 turnovers,something crazy like that!).The other 3 games,he was great especially this game!!

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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#10 » by homecourtloss » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:46 pm

Largest SRS differential sweeps against #1 seeds

2018 ECSF: Cavs (.59 SRS) sweep Raptors (7.29 SRS), -6.70 SRS
2001 WCF: Lakers (3.74 SRS) sweep Spurs (7.92 SRS), -4.18 SRS
1995 Finals: Rockets (2.32 SRS) sweep Magic (6.44 SRS), -4.12 SRS
2015 ECF: Cavs (4.08 SRS) sweep Hawks (4.75 SRS), -.67 SRS
1989 Finals: Pistons (6.24 SRS) sweep Lakers (6.38 SRS), -.14 SRS

Sweeps by lower seeds against #1 seeds

—#1 seed 1969 Bullets were swept by the #3 seed Knicks. Knicks had the higher SRS (+1.43).
—#1 seed 1970 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had a slightly higher SRS (+1.0)
—#1 seed 1977 Lakers were swept by the #3 seed Blazers. The Blazers actually had a much higher SRS (+2.75)
—#1 seed 1983 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Sixers. Sixers had the higher SRS (+2.47)
—#1 seed 1989 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Pistons. Lakers had the slightly higher SRS (+.14 SRS)
—#1 seed 1995 Magic were swept by the #6 seed Rockets. Magic had the much higher SRS (+4.12)
—#1 seed 2001 Spurs were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Spurs had he much higher SRS (+4.18)
—#1 seed 2002 Nets were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had the much higher SRS (+3.48)
—#1 seed 2003 Pistons were swept by the #2 seed Nets. Nets had a higher SRS (+1.45)
—#1 seed 2015 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Cavs. Hawks had the slightly higher SRS (+.67)
—#1 seed 2018 Raptors were swept by the #4 seed Cavs. Raptors had a much higher SRS (+6.70)
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#11 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:53 pm

homecourtloss wrote:Largest SRS differential sweeps against #1 seeds

2018 ECSF: Cavs (.59 SRS) sweep Raptors (7.29 SRS), -6.70 SRS
2001 WCF: Lakers (3.74 SRS) sweep Spurs (7.92 SRS), -4.18 SRS
1995 Finals: Rockets (2.32 SRS) sweep Magic (6.44 SRS), -4.12 SRS
2015 ECF: Cavs (4.08 SRS) sweep Hawks (4.75 SRS), -.67 SRS
1989 Finals: Pistons (6.24 SRS) sweep Lakers (6.38 SRS), -.14 SRS

Sweeps by lower seeds against #1 seeds

—#1 seed 1969 Bullets were swept by the #3 seed Knicks. Knicks had the higher SRS (+1.43).
—#1 seed 1970 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had a slightly higher SRS (+1.0)
—#1 seed 1977 Lakers were swept by the #3 seed Blazers. The Blazers actually had a much higher SRS (+2.75)
—#1 seed 1983 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Sixers. Sixers had the higher SRS (+2.47)
—#1 seed 1989 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Pistons. Lakers had the slightly higher SRS (+.14 SRS)
—#1 seed 1995 Magic were swept by the #6 seed Rockets. Magic had the much higher SRS (+4.12)
—#1 seed 2001 Spurs were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Spurs had he much higher SRS (+4.18)
—#1 seed 2002 Nets were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had the much higher SRS (+3.48)
—#1 seed 2003 Pistons were swept by the #2 seed Nets. Nets had a higher SRS (+1.45)
—#1 seed 2015 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Cavs. Hawks had the slightly higher SRS (+.67)
—#1 seed 2018 Raptors were swept by the #4 seed Cavs. Raptors had a much higher SRS (+6.70)


Is hilarious that if cavs beat hawks and toronto by 6 instead of 4 they would get so much more credit for it lmao
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#12 » by Onus » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:58 pm

Lebronto has to be one of the best on air off the cuff commentaries of all time. Absolutely an incredible performance by Lebron
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#13 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:05 pm

Onus wrote:Lebronto has to be one of the best on air off the cuff commentaries of all time. Absolutely an incredible performance by Lebron


Lebron has been involved in so many iconic calls

Lebronto, block by james and indirectly rebound by bosh come to my mind
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#14 » by Homer38 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:19 pm

falcolombardi wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:Largest SRS differential sweeps against #1 seeds

2018 ECSF: Cavs (.59 SRS) sweep Raptors (7.29 SRS), -6.70 SRS
2001 WCF: Lakers (3.74 SRS) sweep Spurs (7.92 SRS), -4.18 SRS
1995 Finals: Rockets (2.32 SRS) sweep Magic (6.44 SRS), -4.12 SRS
2015 ECF: Cavs (4.08 SRS) sweep Hawks (4.75 SRS), -.67 SRS
1989 Finals: Pistons (6.24 SRS) sweep Lakers (6.38 SRS), -.14 SRS

Sweeps by lower seeds against #1 seeds

—#1 seed 1969 Bullets were swept by the #3 seed Knicks. Knicks had the higher SRS (+1.43).
—#1 seed 1970 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had a slightly higher SRS (+1.0)
—#1 seed 1977 Lakers were swept by the #3 seed Blazers. The Blazers actually had a much higher SRS (+2.75)
—#1 seed 1983 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Sixers. Sixers had the higher SRS (+2.47)
—#1 seed 1989 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Pistons. Lakers had the slightly higher SRS (+.14 SRS)
—#1 seed 1995 Magic were swept by the #6 seed Rockets. Magic had the much higher SRS (+4.12)
—#1 seed 2001 Spurs were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Spurs had he much higher SRS (+4.18)
—#1 seed 2002 Nets were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had the much higher SRS (+3.48)
—#1 seed 2003 Pistons were swept by the #2 seed Nets. Nets had a higher SRS (+1.45)
—#1 seed 2015 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Cavs. Hawks had the slightly higher SRS (+.67)
—#1 seed 2018 Raptors were swept by the #4 seed Cavs. Raptors had a much higher SRS (+6.70)


Is hilarious that if cavs beat hawks and toronto by 6 instead of 4 they would get so much more credit for it lmao


In 2015 vs Hawks Kyrie had played only 49 minutes(2 games) in this series.Love was of course out for this series,so JR Smith and Thompson were the best teammates of LBJ in this series!
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#15 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:21 am

Cavs are hard to play small perimeter like Lowry/FVV/DeRozan against. Against LeBron Love TT frontcourt someone has to guard LeBron or a big. At the same time Raptors big lineup was too slow on D against shooters. So Cavs were kryptonite.
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#16 » by No-more-rings » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:27 am

It was an amazing series, not to take anything away but the Raptors were a paper tiger if there ever were one with that record and SRS.
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#17 » by giberish » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:47 am

Perhaps I don't give the Cavs that much credit there as I tend to feel that the series was more about Toronto having a mental block against LeBron and underperforming.

Somewhat similarly, I don't give the 1991 Lakers much credit for upsetting Portland, even with Worthy hobbled part of the series because Portland had a mental block against the Lakers (they got to the finals in 1990 because Phoenix beat LA) and played like ass much of the series (which is too bad as Portland/Chicago would have been a great series in 1991 - by 1992 Portland declined a bit while Chicago got a bit better).
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#18 » by f4p » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:50 am

it wasn't until making a playoff SRS spreadsheet recently that i realized just how ridiculous the differential in that series was.
i knew toronto always seemed to do well in SRS and older lebron on cleveland tended to not be impressive in regular season SRS, but +6.7 is amongst the biggest upsets ever. and it was a sweep! toronto obviously had no chance with seemingly every cav being on fire from 3 (after bricking everything against the pacers), but it was still embarrassing, especially lebron twirling the ball in ibaka's face. which was somehow even worse than kyrie and lebron going off the backboard in game 1 of the previous year.

Cyrusman122000 wrote:This series was over after game 1

Raptors we’re in control almost the whole game at home and then lost the game late in the 4th. If I remember correctly it may have gone to OT. The raptors needed that game 1 at Home to start the series off mentally. Once they lost that game, the series was over.


the raptors had about 73 chances to tip in a game winner at the end of regulation of game 1 and missed them all. that's when it felt like it was over. like the universe was looking out for lebron.
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#19 » by f4p » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:56 am

Homer38 wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:Largest SRS differential sweeps against #1 seeds

2018 ECSF: Cavs (.59 SRS) sweep Raptors (7.29 SRS), -6.70 SRS
2001 WCF: Lakers (3.74 SRS) sweep Spurs (7.92 SRS), -4.18 SRS
1995 Finals: Rockets (2.32 SRS) sweep Magic (6.44 SRS), -4.12 SRS
2015 ECF: Cavs (4.08 SRS) sweep Hawks (4.75 SRS), -.67 SRS
1989 Finals: Pistons (6.24 SRS) sweep Lakers (6.38 SRS), -.14 SRS

Sweeps by lower seeds against #1 seeds

—#1 seed 1969 Bullets were swept by the #3 seed Knicks. Knicks had the higher SRS (+1.43).
—#1 seed 1970 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had a slightly higher SRS (+1.0)
—#1 seed 1977 Lakers were swept by the #3 seed Blazers. The Blazers actually had a much higher SRS (+2.75)
—#1 seed 1983 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Sixers. Sixers had the higher SRS (+2.47)
—#1 seed 1989 Lakers were swept by the #1 seed Pistons. Lakers had the slightly higher SRS (+.14 SRS)
—#1 seed 1995 Magic were swept by the #6 seed Rockets. Magic had the much higher SRS (+4.12)
—#1 seed 2001 Spurs were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Spurs had he much higher SRS (+4.18)
—#1 seed 2002 Nets were swept by the #2 seed Lakers. Lakers had the much higher SRS (+3.48)
—#1 seed 2003 Pistons were swept by the #2 seed Nets. Nets had a higher SRS (+1.45)
—#1 seed 2015 Hawks were swept by the #2 seed Cavs. Hawks had the slightly higher SRS (+.67)
—#1 seed 2018 Raptors were swept by the #4 seed Cavs. Raptors had a much higher SRS (+6.70)


Is hilarious that if cavs beat hawks and toronto by 6 instead of 4 they would get so much more credit for it lmao


In 2015 vs Hawks Kyrie had played only 49 minutes(2 games) in this series.Love was of course out for this series,so JR Smith and Thompson were the best teammates of LBJ in this series!


that's why i'm higher on 2015 lebron than most people here seem to be. the hawks weren't really playing like a 60 win team to end the season and they had a few injuries of their own i think (korver at least), but lebron couldn't shoot straight and was basically missing his 2nd and 3rd best players and just eviscerated them like none of it mattered. lebron's quantity seemed to have a quality of its own.
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Re: 2018: LeBron v TOR 

Post#20 » by homecourtloss » Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:31 am

f4p wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
Is hilarious that if cavs beat hawks and toronto by 6 instead of 4 they would get so much more credit for it lmao


In 2015 vs Hawks Kyrie had played only 49 minutes(2 games) in this series.Love was of course out for this series,so JR Smith and Thompson were the best teammates of LBJ in this series!


that's why i'm higher on 2015 lebron than most people here seem to be. the hawks weren't really playing like a 60 win team to end the season and they had a few injuries of their own i think (korver at least), but lebron couldn't shoot straight and was basically missing his 2nd and 3rd best players and just eviscerated them like none of it mattered. lebron's quantity seemed to have a quality of its own.


That 2015 team…that might have been his best team if not for injuries. The synergy they had after making the mid season trades was off the charts good. 33-3 with James, Love, and Kyrie playing. Played at like +11 or +12 SRS to finish the year, barely trailed at home as they gave out wire to wire beat downs. And this was with a slower, back pain James who couldn’t shoot.

Vs. Atlanta
James + JJones, +18.3 per 100 possessions
James + Shumpert, +17.8
James + Mozgov, +14.9
James + TT, +13.9
James + JR, +9.1
James + Delly, +9.1
James + Kyrie, +8.8 (34 minutes)

For the “James need spacing” spammers, besides the fact that everyone does

James + Mozgov + TT: +16.2 per 100 possessions; that’s zero spacing there
James + Mozgov+ Shumpert: +25.1
James + TT + Shumpert: +17.5

James+ Mozgov + TT + Shumpert + Delly: +32.0 per 100 possessions [best shooters are Delly and Shumpert]
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…

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