Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career?

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Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#1 » by Ein Sof » Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:19 pm

https://clutchpoints.com/lebron-james-greatest-positions-ranked/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1058179-miami-heat-why-lebron-james-is-the-best-point-guard-on-the-heats-roster

It's a bit of a mystery to me.

LeBron's passing acumen and ball-in-hand playing style seem ideal for the PG position, so it seems weird to me that he was pigeonholed into forward positions.

It's not that he can't do it (2020) or that it doesn't work (again, 2020).

And AFAIK most of his coaches have asked him to do it.

So why?
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#2 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:24 pm

He is the lead play/decision maker of essentially all his teams

Calling him a point guard or not is just semantics
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#3 » by Ein Sof » Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:26 pm

falcolombardi wrote:He is the lead play/decision maker of essentially all his teams

Calling him a point guard or not is just semantics

It's not semantics because forward LeBron is sharing point guard duties on the court all game.

Like... if it doesn't matter, then why was LeBron moving to the 1 such a big deal in 2020 to begin with?
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#4 » by Owly » Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:58 pm

Depends what we mean by these labels.

But I guess I'd say it's not in his body's best interest exerting the forces to stay in front of the much smaller jets night-to-night and any possible benefit wouldn't be worth that tradeoff. Now what one thinks the benefits might be (and he had a huge impact regardless) why he didn't do it more in the playoffs (partially at least related to roster construction from first answer) might be more debatable.

But again it also depends what we mean.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#5 » by LukaTheGOAT » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:02 pm

An outdated way of thinking at least with his Miami tenure. He and Wade should have handled more and the Heat should have just replaced Chalmers with another big shooter who could defend on the court.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#6 » by DraymondGold » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:14 pm

I remember hearing someone once mention there's at least ~4 ways to define position.

1. Size: height, wingspan, etc.
2. Body type: e.g. weight, breadth of shoulders, center of gravity, quickness vs strength, etc.
3. Offensive role: how much are you a playmaker vs a finisher, a spacer vs a rim threat, etc.
4. Defensive role: how much are you a point of attack perimeter defender vs rim protector, etc.

LeBron definitely could fit as a point guard by 3. Offensive Role, and throughout history there has been some willingness to ignore 1. size so long as the player fits the role (e.g. Magic's tall for his position, Jordan's tall, Draymond's short for a big man, etc.).

But it's worth remembering LeBron's defensive role would definitely not fit as a point guard. He's much worse at point of attack perimeter defense against quicker and smaller players compared to his ability as a wing man defender or an off-ball roaming help defender. His defensive strengths definitely fit more as a wing, and I'd say they're closer to a bigman's skillset than a guard's.

On offense though, I'd have no qualms about him playing Point.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#7 » by RCM88x » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:19 pm

Because having two players on the court who are capable of initiating team offense is more valuable than having only one.

I agree its really all semantics anyways, the position you play is pretty much defined by who you defend and who your teammates are. If you really want to you can call Lebron a PG for his whole career, same as you can call him a PF.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#8 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:11 pm

LeBron should have never played with a traditional PG. His biggest advantage is his size, and his teams should have always gone for an oversized PG (i.e. Ron Harper and MJ). By playing LeBron next to these 6'2" PG's that are average defenders you have essentially taken away his size advantage.

Larry Hughes was actually a good option, but they started Eric Snow and Daniel Gibson next to him. Andre Iguodala would have also been perfect next to James as a "point guard".

Had LeBron and his teams focused less on traditional centers and point guards they would have had a hell of a lot more rings. LeBron is a one man wrecking machine, and by handicapping him with these oversized centers or undersized point guards they neutralized his greatest advantages.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#9 » by Cavsfansince84 » Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:57 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron should have never played with a traditional PG. His biggest advantage is his size, and his teams should have always gone for an oversized PG (i.e. Ron Harper and MJ). By playing LeBron next to these 6'2" PG's that are average defenders you have essentially taken away his size advantage.

Larry Hughes was actually a good option, but they started Eric Snow and Daniel Gibson next to him. Andre Iguodala would have also been perfect next to James as a "point guard".

Had LeBron and his teams focused less on traditional centers and point guards they would have had a hell of a lot more rings. LeBron is a one man wrecking machine, and by handicapping him with these oversized centers or undersized point guards they neutralized his greatest advantages.


I agree and I recall it being sort of a discussion back in the 06-10 range but for some reason never happened. I think part of it was the perception that he would struggle guarding opposing pg's or that it would take too much out of him. Then he kept adding muscle and became a 4 in Miami. After that of course he gets paired up with Kyrie who fills the pg role. Rewriting his first Clev stint with him at pg would be interesting but they'd have to get a decent sf for it to make a difference.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#10 » by falcolombardi » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:18 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron should have never played with a traditional PG. His biggest advantage is his size, and his teams should have always gone for an oversized PG (i.e. Ron Harper and MJ). By playing LeBron next to these 6'2" PG's that are average defenders you have essentially taken away his size advantage.

Larry Hughes was actually a good option, but they started Eric Snow and Daniel Gibson next to him. Andre Iguodala would have also been perfect next to James as a "point guard".

Had LeBron and his teams focused less on traditional centers and point guards they would have had a hell of a lot more rings. LeBron is a one man wrecking machine, and by handicapping him with these oversized centers or undersized point guards they neutralized his greatest advantages.


I agree and I recall it being sort of a discussion back in the 06-10 range but for some reason never happened. I think part of it was the perception that he would struggle guarding opposing pg's or that it would take too much out of him. Then he kept adding muscle and became a 4 in Miami. After that of course he gets paired up with Kyrie who fills the pg role. Rewriting his first Clev stint with him at pg would be interesting but they'd have to get a decent sf for it to make a difference.


If cavs gor iguodala (they were literally one pick away) that would have been really, really interesting

Iggy would have been a perfect running mate for lebron as he evolved into a quality playmaker that could be the playmaker with lebron on the bench and defend guards and wings effectively while lebron defended wings and provided rim protection
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#11 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:38 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron should have never played with a traditional PG. His biggest advantage is his size, and his teams should have always gone for an oversized PG (i.e. Ron Harper and MJ). By playing LeBron next to these 6'2" PG's that are average defenders you have essentially taken away his size advantage.

Larry Hughes was actually a good option, but they started Eric Snow and Daniel Gibson next to him. Andre Iguodala would have also been perfect next to James as a "point guard".

Had LeBron and his teams focused less on traditional centers and point guards they would have had a hell of a lot more rings. LeBron is a one man wrecking machine, and by handicapping him with these oversized centers or undersized point guards they neutralized his greatest advantages.


I agree and I recall it being sort of a discussion back in the 06-10 range but for some reason never happened. I think part of it was the perception that he would struggle guarding opposing pg's or that it would take too much out of him. Then he kept adding muscle and became a 4 in Miami. After that of course he gets paired up with Kyrie who fills the pg role. Rewriting his first Clev stint with him at pg would be interesting but they'd have to get a decent sf for it to make a difference.


I agree. Kyrie is great enough of a PG that you can play him and sacrifice that size advantage. Eric Snow wasn't.
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Re: Why didn't LeBron play more PG in his career? 

Post#12 » by homecourtloss » Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:36 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron should have never played with a traditional PG. His biggest advantage is his size, and his teams should have always gone for an oversized PG (i.e. Ron Harper and MJ). By playing LeBron next to these 6'2" PG's that are average defenders you have essentially taken away his size advantage.

Larry Hughes was actually a good option, but they started Eric Snow and Daniel Gibson next to him. Andre Iguodala would have also been perfect next to James as a "point guard".

Had LeBron and his teams focused less on traditional centers and point guards they would have had a hell of a lot more rings. LeBron is a one man wrecking machine, and by handicapping him with these oversized centers or undersized point guards they neutralized his greatest advantages.


This is true as evidenced by his crazy high +/- lineups with one big and bigger wings (e.g., Shumpert, Caruso, Delly, etc.), none of which was all that great other than Wade of course.

But that’s part of the luck or lack thereof that James had—he came into an era that wouldn’t stray from the two-bigs/small pg model for the most part and that didn’t start giving way until about 2013 for him in the second half of the Heat’s season.

Look at how successful they were with one big. Now, imagine, THIS LEBRON, with a Caruso like player and/or Shump circa 2015-2016 instead of a Chalmers (though James paired well with him).

2013 Heat lineups

Bosh/Harlem/James/Wade/Chalmers, 688 minutes, 110.5 ORtg, 97.2 DRtg, +13.3
Bosh/James/Battier/Wade/Chalmers, 300 minutes, 115.2 ORtg, 96.0 DRtg, +19.2
Bosh/James/Battier/Allen/Wade, 134 minutes, 111.6 ORtg, 94.8 DRtg, +16.8
Andersen/James/Battier/Chalmers/Cole, 118 minutes, 111.7 ORtg, 97.5 DRtg, +14.1
Bosh/James/Wade/Allen/Chalmers, 112 minutes, 128.9 ORtg, 97.6, DRtg, +31.3
Haslem/James/Batt/Wade/Chalmers, 94 minutes, 123.4 ORtg, 92.7 DRtg, +30.7
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…

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