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Who would get a bigger boost in the GOAT debates if they won a title in these respective years.

Lebron’s boost would be bigger providing he performed better.

Kareem tbh

I am assuming lebron still struggles and wade "carries" him to the 2011 ring which in all honestly may be used against him almost as much as thw actual loss

Kareem now would have 7 rings which would give him that over jordan and one more fmvp (should alsp have the 80 one smh) so with 3*(should be 4) fmvps he couldnt be so accused of being carried to his rings by magic

Assuming similar performances, it has to be Kareem. To me, it wouldn't change much though - I value Kareem's 1974 season as it is more than most seasons in NBA history.

70sFan wrote:Assuming similar performances, it has to be Kareem. To me, it wouldn't change much though - I value Kareem's 1974 season as it is more than most seasons in NBA history.

Unfortunately goat level seasons without rings dont move the needle much to most people

falcolombardi wrote:

70sFan wrote:Assuming similar performances, it has to be Kareem. To me, it wouldn't change much though - I value Kareem's 1974 season as it is more than most seasons in NBA history.

Unfortunately goat level seasons without rings dont move the needle much to most people

Yeah, unfortunately...

70sFan wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

70sFan wrote:Assuming similar performances, it has to be Kareem. To me, it wouldn't change much though - I value Kareem's 1974 season as it is more than most seasons in NBA history.

Unfortunately goat level seasons without rings dont move the needle much to most people

Yeah, unfortunately...

The winning/rings bias (here) is paranormal, as I've been saying since I got to know the site.

It's extremely unfair.

Neither player would theoretically have to play all that much better in the last few games of the Finals for the series to switch, now Kareem would have to flat out play at a way higher level to make that difference than Lebron imo. Lebron would merely need to have couple average games where Kareem would need probably a pretty elite G7 or G5 performance. I consider Lebron's play a bigger black mark on his career than Kareem's play in '74.

In the popular narrative 2011 would make much more of a difference today than 1974 would.

RCM88x wrote:Neither player would theoretically have to play all that much better in the last few games of the Finals for the series to switch, now Kareem would have to flat out play at a way higher level to make that difference than Lebron imo. Lebron would merely need to have couple average games where Kareem would need probably a pretty elite G7 or G5 performance. I consider Lebron's play a bigger black mark on his career than Kareem's play in '74.

In the popular narrative 2011 would make much more of a difference today than 1974 would.

I assumed that in this scenario kareem and lebron play the same but teammates pmay a bit better or rivals a bit worse

I mean few people care about Kareem that much in historical debates but if Kareem won in 74 it would more widely be seen as one of the best carry jobs ever, maybe even the best honestly. And that would probably make his GOAT case much stronger to most people.

But provided Lebron plays to the level he's capable of, I think it would augment Lebron's GOAT case more because his only losses would have come against teams that vastly outmatched his. 2011 rightfully is one of the few things that really gives people cause for concern at this point when it comes to Lebron.

capfan33 wrote:I mean few people care about Kareem that much in historical debates but if Kareem won in 74 it would more widely be seen as one of the best carry jobs ever, maybe even the best honestly. And that would probably make his GOAT case much stronger to most people.

But provided Lebron plays to the level he's capable of, I think it would augment Lebron's GOAT case more because his only losses would have come against teams that vastly outmatched his. 2011 rightfully is one of the few things that really gives people cause for concern at this point when it comes to Lebron.

Peopke would still criticize it and bring up how he got carried by wade, but on the other end he would have a 5th ring

RCM88x wrote:Neither player would theoretically have to play all that much better in the last few games of the Finals for the series to switch, now Kareem would have to flat out play at a way higher level to make that difference than Lebron imo. Lebron would merely need to have couple average games where Kareem would need probably a pretty elite G7 or G5 performance. I consider Lebron's play a bigger black mark on his career than Kareem's play in '74.

In the popular narrative 2011 would make much more of a difference today than 1974 would.

To be honest, LeBron can play pretty much the same but if they make a single shot in the last 6 minutes of game 2 or get a stop, Heat win that series even with LeBron playing poorly/tentatively.

I don't think it would move the needle that much for either guy tbh. I think 1974 is so long ago most people wouldn't give that weight to it who already have LeBron or MJ ahead and unless LeBron had a spectacular finals in 2011 I doubt it would do much for people who have MJ ahead. I think there's lots of people who would still have MJ ahead even if 11 and 14 were both Heat wins and LeBron were 6-4 in finals with a 4 peat on his resume.

Both lost with HCA, but I'd say Kareem because he gets Finals mvp as well along with he would have won multiple titles for the franchise that drafted him.

assuming lebron plays well and wins finals mvp, i think he's probably the consensus GOAT at this point. not by a lot, but maybe 60/40 and that percentage probably grows significantly over the next 10 years. if he sucked and the heat didn't have the epic game 2 collapse and won the series, he's very unlikely to be considered the GOAT, though it would bring some people over (maybe it's like 20/80 instead of 10/90 or whatever it is now).

kareem having 2 without magic certainly gives him a boost in the GOAT debate and 7 overall would have been parroted down through the ages and we would have grown up with it so maybe he has more GOAT supporters for his actual peak as opposed to his few supporters now pretty much only being for career value. interesting if jordan retires with 6 if kareem has 7.

f4p wrote:assuming lebron plays well and wins finals mvp, i think he's probably the consensus GOAT at this point. not by a lot, but maybe 60/40 and that percentage probably grows significantly over the next 10 years. if he sucked and the heat didn't have the epic game 2 collapse and won the series, he's very unlikely to be considered the GOAT, though it would bring some people over (maybe it's like 20/80 instead of 10/90 or whatever it is now).

kareem having 2 without magic certainly gives him a boost in the GOAT debate and 7 overall would have been parroted down through the ages and we would have grown up with it so maybe he has more GOAT supporters for his actual peak as opposed to his few supporters now pretty much only being for career value. interesting if jordan retires with 6 if kareem has 7.

I have Kareem as my GOAT because of his prime/peak value.

ty 4191 wrote:
The winning/rings bias (here) is paranormal, as I've been saying since I got to know the site.

It's extremely unfair.

Would you please ease off on the board-bashing?

This isn't the only place where ringz bias a factor/problem.
In fact, in my experience, it is decidedly LESS pervasive here than it is in less analytical [i.e. mainstream, casual fan] circles.