Highest reasonable ranking for Oscar all time?

[1993Playoffs]

How high can you reasonably place Oscar all time?

Top 2-3?

Better than Magic/Bird?

[Cavsfansince84]

I could see him being placed in the tier 2 group that often goes from 5-10 or something like that so maybe 6-8 for him. That isn't too much of a stretch given how good he was. You just can't place too much emphasis on playoffs/rings to have him that high which most people do. Oscar's problem is a 6 year stretch right in his prime where he has 3 straight 1st rd exits followed by 3 years of no playoffs. It's sort of similar to KG in that they both move onto other teams where they have more success but its's almost post prime. That's hard to overlook when you're getting compared to Magic, Bird and Shaq.

[wojoaderge]

No more than 10th for me

[Jaivl]

3ish

Given the margin of error for 60s stars, I think only LeBron and Kareem are complete locks.

[No-more-rings]

8th or 9th.

[ceoofkobefans]

This isn’t a very definitive answer because how valuable his career was is just going to naturally be super ambiguous with how little Info we have of him (we have like 4 games of him in Cincy and don’t even have full box scores for him). With the info we do have on him the highest I can confidently put him is 13th but I usually put him 15-20 (KM Dirk Steph Oscar CP3 West KD are almost completely interchangeable to me). I can go into detail on why on another post if y’all want

[capfan33]

I think he has a decent argument against Magic so wherever you would argue Magic highest, which for me is around 6-8 I would guess.

[eminence]

I don't see many real arguments over LeBron or Russell (I don't see offense>>>defense as a real argument). I can see arguments over most anyone else, though I find it particularly tricky to get him past KAJ or Duncan as well.

So 3-5 for me.

[No-more-rings]

I don't see many real arguments over LeBron or Russell (I don't see offense>>>defense as a real argument). I can see arguments over most anyone else, though I find it particularly tricky to get him past KAJ or Duncan as well.

So 3-5 for me.

Can’t see the case over Kareem. Kareem was maybe a little worse on offense, but significantly better on defense plus way more rings and accolades and longevity.

[1993Playoffs]

This isn’t a very definitive answer because how valuable his career was is just going to naturally be super ambiguous with how little Info we have of him (we have like 4 games of him in Cincy and don’t even have full box scores for him). With the info we do have on him the highest I can confidently put him is 13th but I usually put him 15-20 (KM Dirk Steph Oscar CP3 West KD are almost completely interchangeable to me). I can go into detail on why on another post if y’all want

I’m interested in why you have him so low. I usually see him in the 9-13 group

[tsherkin]

At a rough pass, I'd say somewhere in the 7-15 group seems appropriate. There are a lot of (good) explanations for why he isn't as accomplished as some of the other guys in these discussions, but at some point, that stops mattering due to the raw volume of competition, right? Guys with multiple MVPs, more rings, more records, etc, they're building up over time. Oscar was a great player, and he kind of got shafted by playing in the 60s because he got stuck between Wilt and Russell. As far as ability goes, he's up there with almost anyone you care to mention. And even afterward, he has a really nice legacy in terms of how seminal The Art of Basketball was for various youth training programs over the decades. And of course, even if you adjust for pace, he was quite impressive from a statistical standpoint. That he won an MVP in the 60s is ridiculous, and very impressive, and he did ultimately get a ring with Kareem. Prototype player, very interesting from a developmental standpoint.

20 years ago, I'd have a different answer, but the league keeps moving, and the guys who were once at the very top eventually slide down the mountain a little. It'll happen to everyone eventually, on a long enough timeline.

[Dutchball97]

I generally have Oscar around 15th but I could see arguments for him up to 8th.

[pipfan]

I agree with the consensus-can't see him about MJ, LBJ, KAJ, Duncan, Wilt, Russell or Shaq. I have Magic, Bird, Hakeem next, and him in the next group with Kobe, West, Moses and Dr. J

[migya]

He had a great career and some had him as number 1 in the 90s so top 5 is not unthinkable.

[LAL1947]

I think 12 players were clearly better than him... MJ, Wilt, Lebron, Larry, Kobe, Magic, Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, West... so #13 is the highest that I'd go.

Guess the decider for me is where does Jerry West rank. I feel West was a better shooter, better dribbler, better at driving to the rim, and the better defender. Oscar has higher assist totals but I still think they are equal as passers from watching their old footage. So I tend to stick with placing Oscar below Jerry.

Watch on YouTube

[DQuinn1575]

He was voted the #2 player of all-time in 1986, behind only Jabbar, so ahead of Russell and Wilt - and some had him ahead of Jabbar.
All that saw him play in the 60s considered him the best non center ever, and that was pretty much the case until Jordan came around.

When you get to #1 it is personal preference, but I definitely think it is reasonable for him to be Top 5.

[LloydFree]

When I was a kid, in the late 70's early 80's, it was common thought that Oscar was the greatest player non-Center in the history of the game. Didn't see him, but every older person I know, said he was better than Magic and Bird, and we're passionate about it.

[LukaTheGOAT]

3ish

Given the margin of error for 60s stars, I think only LeBron and Kareem are complete locks.

You don't think Jordan would be a lock? If I remember correctly, you don't really do era adjusted longevity so MJ not having serious post-prime years wouldn't be a big hookup for you right?

[Cavsfansince84]

He was voted the #2 player of all-time in 1986, behind only Jabbar, so ahead of Russell and Wilt - and some had him ahead of Jabbar.
All that saw him play in the 60s considered him the best non center ever, and that was pretty much the case until Jordan came around.

When you get to #1 it is personal preference, but I definitely think it is reasonable for him to be Top 5.

Part of that is subjective as it is now though in that Oscar was viewed I think as the greatest all around offensive player ever at least until MJ came on the scene imo. Because not only was he a 30/10/10 type guy but his efficiency was beyond elite for his era and that's with no 3 pt shot. So there's no doubt that Russell's overall impact was likely lost on some who even got to see him a lot(similar with people from today who saw a lot of Duncan but will still argue how he's barely top 10). Which is why even now we are trying to piece it all together in terms of how skill sets translated to impact and all that. I mean my dad didn't watch that much bb but I think he watched enough to say Bill Russell was the greatest. That was his perception as a casual bb fan who's in his 80's now. So I think people formed these opinions back in the 60's/70's but didn't really do that much statistical analysis to go deeper than that. Oscar's scoring+ passing skills were likely to leave a strong impression on anyone back then.

[Stalwart]

When I was a kid, in the late 70's early 80's, it was common thought that Oscar was the greatest player non-Center in the history of the game. Didn't see him, but every older person I know, said he was better than Magic and Bird, and we're passionate about it.

They were wrong. Oscar is not better than either one.