Who has the most titles being both off and def mvp for his team since the shot clock?

[Cavsfansince84]

I thought this might be an interesting debate to have. Also for offensive purposes this is only counting playoff numbers. Defense is usually consistent enough that it shouldn't change from rs to ps. Going back to 1956.

[1993Playoffs]

Off the top of my head maybe Kareem, Hakeem Shaq or LeBron

I mean MJ wasn’t the best defensive player on any of his title team’s right?

Kareem 71, 80, 82 , 85? Not sure how good Kareem defense was after 1980 , seemed to be declining though
Hakeem 94,95
LeBron 12,13,16
Shaq 00,01,02?

[falcolombardi]

Lebron, duncan, kareem, hakeem and prolly shaq come to mind

[penbeast0]

If offense only counts playoff numbers, Bill Russell gets a mention. 1962 he led his team in scoring, field goal percentage, and even shot a better FT% (at almost twice the volume!) than second leading scorer Sam Jones. And that doesn't even consider the value of his offensive rebounding. He won't have the most years, but that was a pretty good postseason for him.

Pretty sure there are some Mikan years as well but they aren't post shot-clock.

[Dutchball97]

I do feel like people are too quick to dismiss MJ as a defender sometimes. In the first threepeat I don't think there is all that much seperating MJ, Pippen and Grant on the defensive end. I'd probably take Pippen most of these years but it's close enough to at least deserve a look.

Now I figured the winner here would be a 2-way big but when going through the years I have LeBron as the only one being the best on both sides of the ball for 3 titles (2012, 2013, 2016).

Hakeem deserves a mention for being the only one to be a nobrainer as best on both sides of the ball for all his titles but as we know he only won twice.

Kareem seems logical but I'd only give him 1971 and 1980, I think Magic is the clearly better offensive player from 82 onwards.

Shaq is a maybe for me, 2000 he got for sure but I'd say Kobe has more offensive impact in 2001 and I think Horry might be the best defender on the team in 2002.

Duncan is definitely the closest to LeBron for me as he has arguments to be the best on both sides for all his titles but it's very close multiple times. In the end I'd give him 2003 and 2007.

Russell is interesting as he's the best defender on his team by a landslide for his entire career and on offense he comes surprisingly close a lot as well. Outside of 1962 it's hard to give him any of the other seasons though.

[ardee]

If we're mentioning Russell, Wilt should be too. Definitely best on both sides in 1967.

[Dutchball97]

If we're mentioning Russell, Wilt should be too. Definitely best on both sides in 1967.

At that rate we should be mentioning everyone with a case. How about 77 Walton? 21 Giannis? Probably harder to rationalize for some but even some guys like 75 Barry, 84 Bird and 06 Wade could make a case for being the most impactful on their team on both offense and defense.

[f4p]

Without looking at what anyone else wrote to see if I forgot something:

Definitely more than 1
Lebron 3 - 2012/2013/2016
Kareem 2 - 1971/1980
Hakeem 2 - 1994/1995
Shaq 2 - 2000/2002

Maybe
Shaq 3 - 2000/2001/2002 depending on how you feel about Kobe's amazing 2001 playoffs
Shaq 1 - 2000 depending on how you feel about Kobe's western playoffs in 2002
Duncan 2- 1999/2003 depending on if you completely give Duncan 1999, as Robinson was still amazing defensively and Duncan didn't really completely separate offensively until the playoffs.

[Stan]

I'd say the following were the best offensive & defensive players on their teams

1962 Russell
1967 Wilt
1971/1980 Kareem
1973 Frazier
1974 Havlicek
1977 Walton
1994/1995 Hakeem
2000-2002 Shaq
2003 Duncan
2006 Wade
2012/2013/2016 LeBron
2019 Kawhi
2021 Giannis

My questions for you guys

Do you disagree with any of the selections above?

Does Duncan get this for 1999/2005/2007?

Does Kobe for 2009?

And the obvious player missing from that list, does Jordan get these for any year over Pippen?

[penbeast0]

I'd say the following were the best offensive & defensive players on their teams

1962 Russell
1967 Wilt
1971/1980 Kareem
1973 Frazier
1974 Havlicek
1977 Walton
1994/1995 Hakeem
2000-2002 Shaq
2003 Duncan
2006 Wade
2012/2013/2016 LeBron
2019 Kawhi
2021 Giannis

My questions for you guys

Do you disagree with any of the selections above?

Does Duncan get this for 1999/2005/2007?

Does Kobe for 2009?

And the obvious player missing from that list, does Jordan get these for any year over Pippen?

74 Havlicek over Cowens defensively? No

Duncan 99, no, Robinson was better defensively, I would give it to him in both 2005 and 2007.

Not sure about Wade 06 or Kobe 09, but I'd be inclined to give Wade the benefit of the doubt and be more doubtful on Kobe which is how you came down too.

[Colbinii]

I'd say the following were the best offensive & defensive players on their teams

1962 Russell
1967 Wilt
1971/1980 Kareem
1973 Frazier
1974 Havlicek
1977 Walton
1994/1995 Hakeem
2000-2002 Shaq
2003 Duncan
2006 Wade
2012/2013/2016 LeBron
2019 Kawhi
2021 Giannis

My questions for you guys

Do you disagree with any of the selections above?

Does Duncan get this for 1999/2005/2007?

Does Kobe for 2009?

And the obvious player missing from that list, does Jordan get these for any year over Pippen?

74 Havlicek over Cowens defensively? No

Duncan 99, no, Robinson was better defensively, I would give it to him in both 2005 and 2007.

Not sure about Wade 06 or Kobe 09, but I'd be inclined to give Wade the benefit of the doubt and be more doubtful on Kobe which is how you came down too.

You think Duncan was better offensively than Manu in 2005 and 2007 Finals?

In 2005, Duncan took on a large usage but was terribly inefficient and wasn't a great playmaker.

Manu was incredible offensively, especially in the pivotal game 7.

[Statlanta]

Kareem and Wilt probably have the most years as best offensive and defensive player.

[f4p]

You think Duncan was better offensively than Manu in 2005 and 2007 Finals?

In 2005, Duncan took on a large usage but was terribly inefficient and wasn't a great playmaker.

Manu was incredible offensively, especially in the pivotal game 7.

yeah 65.2 TS% for manu vs 52.6 TS% for duncan in the playoffs is way too much to ignore. also, it's obviously noisy but duncan had a -5.3 on/off according to bbref, and manu was at +19.9. manu's 34 mpg and 21/6/4 stat line don't lend themselves to looking awesome, but 24.8 PER, 65.2 TS%, and 0.260 WS48 and the incredible on/off make it a pretty amazing playoff run.

[Cavsfansince84]

I'd say the following were the best offensive & defensive players on their teams

1962 Russell
1967 Wilt
1971/1980 Kareem
1973 Frazier
1974 Havlicek
1977 Walton
1994/1995 Hakeem
2000-2002 Shaq
2003 Duncan
2006 Wade
2012/2013/2016 LeBron
2019 Kawhi
2021 Giannis

My questions for you guys

Do you disagree with any of the selections above?

I'm not sure about Kawhi in 2019. I hear a lot of people say he was the third best defender on that team.

[Cavsfansince84]

Kareem and Wilt probably have the most years as best offensive and defensive player.

This is just for title teams. Wilt probably has one at best.

[falcolombardi]

2021 giannis
2016 lebron
2014 kawhi (?) Doubtful but possible
2013 lebron (bosh has a case for defense)
2012 lebron
2008 garnett (arguable for offense)
2007 duncan (arguably)
2003 duncan
2000 shaq
1999 duncan (arguable for defense)
1995 hakeem
1994 hakeem
1983 moses (?) (Arguable for defense over bobby cause minutes)
1980 kareem
1977 walton
1971 kareem
1970 reed (?) (Arguable for offense)
1967 wilt

Therr may be a year where russel was his team best offensive player

[70sFan]

I don't get how few mentions 1967 Wilt gets here, he's a lock here.

My list:

1967 Wilt
1970 Reed
1971 Kareem
1976 Cowens
1977 Walton
1980 Kareem
1982 Kareem
1994 Hakeem
1995 Hakeem
2000 Shaq (not sure about that one)
2003 Duncan
2006 Wade (again, not sure)
2007 Duncan (him vs Manu is close)
2008 Garnett
2012 James
2013 James
2016 James
2021 Giannis