How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?

jalengreen · Post #1 » by **jalengreen** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:04 am

Which ones and who do you think was deserving in those years?

Dr Positivity · Post #2 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:23 am

AI (Shaq)
Both of Nash's (Dirk for both)
Kobe (Paul)
Rose (Lebron)
Durant (Lebron)
Westbrook (Lebron)

Dutchball97 · Post #3 » by **Dutchball97** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:38 am

2001: Shaquille O'Neal
2005: Dirk Nowitzki
2006: Dirk Nowitzki
2008: Chris Paul
2011: Dwight Howard
2017: James Harden

LukaTheGOAT · Post #4 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:55 am

2001: Shaquille O'Neal
2003: KG
2006: Maybe Kobe
2008: Chris Paul
2011: Dwight Howard
2017: James Harden

gavran · Post #5 » by **gavran** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:30 am

Narigo · Post #6 » by **Narigo** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:59 am

2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #7 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:13 pm

Narigo wrote:2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron

2017 LeBron vs 2017 Harden

Code: Select all

    Lebron Harden
GP     74     81
PER   27.0   27.4
VORP   6.7    8.0 
BPM    7.6    8.7
WS    12.9   15.0
WS/48  .221  .245

Cavs were 7th in SRS and the Rockets were 3rd
Cavs had the #3 offense and the Rockets were #2
Cavs had the #21 defense and the Rockets were #18

It would take a VERY strong media narrative around LeBron for him to take that MVP over Harden.

Dooley · Post #8 » by **Dooley** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:29 pm

2001 to Shaq, 2005 and 2006 to Dirk, 2008 to LeBron or CP3, 2011 and 2017 to Bron. There's a few others where, I would have voted for someone other than the winner if I were a voter, but I don't think the winner was undeserving - probably would have voted for Duncan in 2007 and Bron in 2014 but Dirk and KD were right up there with them.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
Narigo wrote:2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron

2017 LeBron vs 2017 Harden

Code: Select all
Lebron Harden GP 74 81 PER 27.0 27.4 VORP 6.7 8.0 BPM 7.6 8.7 WS 12.9 15.0 WS/48 .221 .245

Cavs were 7th in SRS and the Rockets were 3rd
Cavs had the #3 offense and the Rockets were #2
Cavs had the #21 defense and the Rockets were #18

It would take a VERY strong media narrative around LeBron for him to take that MVP over Harden.

Arguments for Lebron over Harden in 2017 as I see it:

- Houston's offense held up fairly well with Harden off the court that year, whereas Cleveland's offense was awful with Lebron off the court.
- Lebron was probably a better defender all things considered
- Heliocentrism bad (or at least, heliocentrism juices box-score production)

RCM88x · Post #9 » by **RCM88x** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:31 pm

From worst to best:

01 Iverson -> Duncan
11 Rose -> LeBron
08 Kobe -> CP3

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #10 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:12 pm

Really disagree, not just could go either way:
01 Duncan
11 LeBron/Howard
17 Harden

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eminence · Post #11 » by **eminence** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:43 pm

Would've picked someone else but am fine with the winner or strongly feel the winner shouldn't have won?

ceiling raiser · Post #12 » by **ceiling raiser** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:11 pm

2001 (Shaq)
2008 (Garnett)
2011 (Paul)
2017 (Curry)

Jaivl · Post #13 » by **Jaivl** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:18 pm

I disagree with a lot of them, actually, but I think most are perfectly fine, save Iverson and Rose, who just were not MVP level guys.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #14 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:16 am

Dooley wrote:2001 to Shaq, 2005 and 2006 to Dirk, 2008 to LeBron or CP3, 2011 and 2017 to Bron. There's a few others where, I would have voted for someone other than the winner if I were a voter, but I don't think the winner was undeserving - probably would have voted for Duncan in 2007 and Bron in 2014 but Dirk and KD were right up there with them.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
Narigo wrote:2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron

2017 LeBron vs 2017 Harden

Code: Select all
Lebron Harden GP 74 81 PER 27.0 27.4 VORP 6.7 8.0 BPM 7.6 8.7 WS 12.9 15.0 WS/48 .221 .245

Cavs were 7th in SRS and the Rockets were 3rd
Cavs had the #3 offense and the Rockets were #2
Cavs had the #21 defense and the Rockets were #18

It would take a VERY strong media narrative around LeBron for him to take that MVP over Harden.

Arguments for Lebron over Harden in 2017 as I see it:

- Houston's offense held up fairly well with Harden off the court that year, whereas Cleveland's offense was awful with Lebron off the court.
- Lebron was probably a better defender all things considered
- Heliocentrism bad (or at least, heliocentrism juices box-score production)

Weak.

LeBron had Irving and Love while Harden had Eric Gordon and Trevor Ariza.

Hardens individual stats were better. His team stats were better. His box score stats were better. His advanced stats were better and he had no star power on his team.

There is no good argument for LeBron, even if the team built around him sucked while he was on the bench.

"He put up worse numbers and won less games, but his bench was bad!"

Yeah, doesn't hold up

LAL1947 · Post #15 » by **LAL1947** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:05 am

2005-06 Should have been Kobe, not Nash
2006-07 Should have been Kobe, not Dirk

Since 2001-02 went to Duncan, then 2002-03 should have been Kobe's too.

Kobe 2002-03:
50+ points: 3 games
40-49 points: 16 games
30-39 points: 23 games
20-29 points: 27 games
10-19 points: 13 games
0-9 points: 0 games

Duncan 2002-03:
50+ points: 0 games
40-49 points: 0 games
30-39 points: 16 games
20-29 points: 40 games
10-19 points: 24 games
0-9 points: 1 game

Kobe had 19 more games than Duncan scoring 40-49 points and 50+ points!! And yes, I know scoring isn't everything... he was playing top level defense (All NBA Defensive 1st Team and the Laker's best defender)... and was also the primary play-maker/creator on the Lakers. The guy was literally doing everything! Score + Defend + Create for the team. That Lakers team didn't have the best record only because we had a fat, lazy Shaq and a lot of crap for depth.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #16 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:50 am

LAL1947 wrote:2005-06 Should have been Kobe, not Nash
2006-07 Should have been Kobe, not Dirk

Since 2001-02 went to Duncan, then 2002-03 should have been Kobe's too.

Kobe 2002-03:
50+ points: 3 games
40-49 points: 16 games
30-39 points: 23 games
20-29 points: 27 games
10-19 points: 13 games
0-9 points: 0 games

Duncan 2002-03:
50+ points: 0 games
40-49 points: 0 games
30-39 points: 16 games
20-29 points: 40 games
10-19 points: 24 games
0-9 points: 1 game

Kobe had 19 more games than Duncan scoring 40-49 points and 50+ points!! And yes, I know scoring isn't everything... he was playing top level defense (All NBA Defensive 1st Team and the Laker's best defender)... and was also the primary play-maker/creator on the Lakers. The guy was literally doing everything! Score + Defend + Create for the team. That Lakers team didn't have the best record only because we had a fat, lazy Shaq and a lot of crap for depth.

You know I’m high on Kobe but 03 is def Duncan, they won 10 more games and that was probably Duncan’s best defensive year or up there, and it ended up being his peak year

07, I do think Kobe was the most impressive player in the sense that you just couldn’t stop him 1v1 that year but at the same time he had an issue that that year especially he really wasn’t passing it. I don’t blame him for it when kwame is saying don’t pass the ball to him, but in terms of his impact it gets lowered a lot relative to his talent because of that

Ein Sof · Post #17 » by **Ein Sof** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:48 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:2005-06 Should have been Kobe, not Nash
2006-07 Should have been Kobe, not Dirk

Since 2001-02 went to Duncan, then 2002-03 should have been Kobe's too.

Kobe 2002-03:
50+ points: 3 games
40-49 points: 16 games
30-39 points: 23 games
20-29 points: 27 games
10-19 points: 13 games
0-9 points: 0 games

Duncan 2002-03:
50+ points: 0 games
40-49 points: 0 games
30-39 points: 16 games
20-29 points: 40 games
10-19 points: 24 games
0-9 points: 1 game

Kobe had 19 more games than Duncan scoring 40-49 points and 50+ points!! And yes, I know scoring isn't everything... he was playing top level defense (All NBA Defensive 1st Team and the Laker's best defender)... and was also the primary play-maker/creator on the Lakers. The guy was literally doing everything! Score + Defend + Create for the team. That Lakers team didn't have the best record only because we had a fat, lazy Shaq and a lot of crap for depth.

You know I’m high on Kobe but 03 is def Duncan, they won 10 more games and that was probably Duncan’s best defensive year or up there, and it ended up being his peak year

07, I do think Kobe was the most impressive player in the sense that you just couldn’t stop him 1v1 that year but at the same time he had an issue that that year especially he really wasn’t passing it. I don’t blame him for it when kwame is saying don’t pass the ball to him, but in terms of his impact it gets lowered a lot relative to his talent because of that

What are you talking about? LMAO

2007 Kobe was literally top 5 in APG amongst non-point guards.

Post #18 » by **Texas Chuck** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:49 pm

I think Kobe should have won MVP his final year too. I mean did you see he scored 60 points in his last ever game? Did Timmy do this? Nash? Dirk? KG? Nope, only Kobe.

megarover · Post #19 » by **megarover** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:56 pm

06 Kobe
11 Howard
17 Harden

Some of these arguments for Kobe (03) and Lebron (17) are subpar.

falcolombardi · Post #20 » by **falcolombardi** » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:04 pm

I think they generally are all valid per mvp usual criteria

Even rose as the best player on a 60 win league leading team makes sense by usual mvp rules

IF we wanted mvp to be explicitly about best player i think 2017 westbrook, 2011 rose and 2001 iverson are questionable as none of them had a serious argument for leagur best player (and i am high as hell on peak westbrook)

Every other mvp who in hidsight we dont see as the best player in the league that year was at least the best regular season player that year