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How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:04 am
by jalengreen
Which ones and who do you think was deserving in those years?
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:23 am
by Dr Positivity
AI (Shaq)
Both of Nash's (Dirk for both)
Kobe (Paul)
Rose (Lebron)
Durant (Lebron)
Westbrook (Lebron)
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:38 am
by Dutchball97
2001: Shaquille O'Neal
2005: Dirk Nowitzki
2006: Dirk Nowitzki
2008: Chris Paul
2011: Dwight Howard
2017: James Harden
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:55 am
by LukaTheGOAT
2001: Shaquille O'Neal
2003: KG
2006: Maybe Kobe
2008: Chris Paul
2011: Dwight Howard
2017: James Harden
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:30 am
by gavran
0
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:59 am
by Narigo
2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:13 pm
by oaktownwarriors87
Narigo wrote:2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron
2017 LeBron vs 2017 Harden
Code: Select all
Lebron Harden
GP 74 81
PER 27.0 27.4
VORP 6.7 8.0
BPM 7.6 8.7
WS 12.9 15.0
WS/48 .221 .245Cavs were 7th in SRS and the Rockets were 3rd
Cavs had the #3 offense and the Rockets were #2
Cavs had the #21 defense and the Rockets were #18
It would take a VERY strong media narrative around LeBron for him to take that MVP over Harden.
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:29 pm
by Dooley
2001 to Shaq, 2005 and 2006 to Dirk, 2008 to LeBron or CP3, 2011 and 2017 to Bron. There's a few others where, I would have voted for someone other than the winner if I were a voter, but I don't think the winner was undeserving - probably would have voted for Duncan in 2007 and Bron in 2014 but Dirk and KD were right up there with them.
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Narigo wrote:2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron
2017 LeBron vs 2017 Harden
Code: Select all
Lebron Harden
GP 74 81
PER 27.0 27.4
VORP 6.7 8.0
BPM 7.6 8.7
WS 12.9 15.0
WS/48 .221 .245Cavs were 7th in SRS and the Rockets were 3rd
Cavs had the #3 offense and the Rockets were #2
Cavs had the #21 defense and the Rockets were #18
It would take a VERY strong media narrative around LeBron for him to take that MVP over Harden.
Arguments for Lebron over Harden in 2017 as I see it:
- Houston's offense held up fairly well with Harden off the court that year, whereas Cleveland's offense was awful with Lebron off the court.
- Lebron was probably a better defender all things considered
- Heliocentrism bad (or at least, heliocentrism juices box-score production)
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:31 pm
by RCM88x
From worst to best:
01 Iverson -> Duncan
11 Rose -> LeBron
08 Kobe -> CP3
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:12 pm
by Ryoga Hibiki
Really disagree, not just could go either way:
01 Duncan
11 LeBron/Howard
17 Harden
___
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Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:43 pm
by eminence
Would've picked someone else but am fine with the winner or strongly feel the winner shouldn't have won?
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:11 pm
by ceiling raiser
2001 (Shaq)
2008 (Garnett)
2011 (Paul)
2017 (Curry)
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:18 pm
by Jaivl
I disagree with a lot of them, actually, but I think most are perfectly fine, save Iverson and Rose, who just were not MVP level guys.
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:16 am
by oaktownwarriors87
Dooley wrote:2001 to Shaq, 2005 and 2006 to Dirk, 2008 to LeBron or CP3, 2011 and 2017 to Bron. There's a few others where, I would have voted for someone other than the winner if I were a voter, but I don't think the winner was undeserving - probably would have voted for Duncan in 2007 and Bron in 2014 but Dirk and KD were right up there with them.
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Narigo wrote:2001: Duncan
2005: Garnett
2006: Nowitzki
2011: LeBron
2017: LeBron
2017 LeBron vs 2017 Harden
Code: Select all
Lebron Harden
GP 74 81
PER 27.0 27.4
VORP 6.7 8.0
BPM 7.6 8.7
WS 12.9 15.0
WS/48 .221 .245Cavs were 7th in SRS and the Rockets were 3rd
Cavs had the #3 offense and the Rockets were #2
Cavs had the #21 defense and the Rockets were #18
It would take a VERY strong media narrative around LeBron for him to take that MVP over Harden.
Arguments for Lebron over Harden in 2017 as I see it:
- Houston's offense held up fairly well with Harden off the court that year, whereas Cleveland's offense was awful with Lebron off the court.
- Lebron was probably a better defender all things considered
- Heliocentrism bad (or at least, heliocentrism juices box-score production)
Weak.
LeBron had Irving and Love while Harden had Eric Gordon and Trevor Ariza.
Hardens individual stats were better. His team stats were better. His box score stats were better. His advanced stats were better and he had no star power on his team.
There is no good argument for LeBron, even if the team built around him sucked while he was on the bench.
"He put up worse numbers and won less games, but his bench was bad!"
Yeah, doesn't hold up
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:05 am
by LAL1947
2005-06 Should have been Kobe, not Nash
2006-07 Should have been Kobe, not Dirk
Since 2001-02 went to Duncan, then 2002-03 should have been Kobe's too.
Kobe 2002-03:
50+ points: 3 games
40-49 points: 16 games
30-39 points: 23 games
20-29 points: 27 games
10-19 points: 13 games
0-9 points: 0 games
Duncan 2002-03:
50+ points: 0 games
40-49 points: 0 games
30-39 points: 16 games
20-29 points: 40 games
10-19 points: 24 games
0-9 points: 1 game
Kobe had 19 more games than Duncan scoring 40-49 points and 50+ points!! And yes, I know scoring isn't everything... he was playing top level defense (All NBA Defensive 1st Team and the Laker's best defender)... and was also the primary play-maker/creator on the Lakers. The guy was literally doing everything! Score + Defend + Create for the team. That Lakers team didn't have the best record only because we had a fat, lazy Shaq and a lot of crap for depth.
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:50 am
by MyUniBroDavis
LAL1947 wrote:2005-06 Should have been Kobe, not Nash
2006-07 Should have been Kobe, not Dirk
Since 2001-02 went to Duncan, then 2002-03 should have been Kobe's too.
Kobe 2002-03:
50+ points: 3 games
40-49 points: 16 games
30-39 points: 23 games
20-29 points: 27 games
10-19 points: 13 games
0-9 points: 0 games
Duncan 2002-03:
50+ points: 0 games
40-49 points: 0 games
30-39 points: 16 games
20-29 points: 40 games
10-19 points: 24 games
0-9 points: 1 game
Kobe had 19 more games than Duncan scoring 40-49 points and 50+ points!! And yes, I know scoring isn't everything... he was playing top level defense (All NBA Defensive 1st Team and the Laker's best defender)... and was also the primary play-maker/creator on the Lakers. The guy was literally doing everything! Score + Defend + Create for the team. That Lakers team didn't have the best record only because we had a fat, lazy Shaq and a lot of crap for depth.
You know I’m high on Kobe but 03 is def Duncan, they won 10 more games and that was probably Duncan’s best defensive year or up there, and it ended up being his peak year
07, I do think Kobe was the most impressive player in the sense that you just couldn’t stop him 1v1 that year but at the same time he had an issue that that year especially he really wasn’t passing it. I don’t blame him for it when kwame is saying don’t pass the ball to him, but in terms of his impact it gets lowered a lot relative to his talent because of that
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:48 pm
by Ein Sof
MyUniBroDavis wrote:LAL1947 wrote:2005-06 Should have been Kobe, not Nash
2006-07 Should have been Kobe, not Dirk
Since 2001-02 went to Duncan, then 2002-03 should have been Kobe's too.
Kobe 2002-03:
50+ points: 3 games
40-49 points: 16 games
30-39 points: 23 games
20-29 points: 27 games
10-19 points: 13 games
0-9 points: 0 games
Duncan 2002-03:
50+ points: 0 games
40-49 points: 0 games
30-39 points: 16 games
20-29 points: 40 games
10-19 points: 24 games
0-9 points: 1 game
Kobe had 19 more games than Duncan scoring 40-49 points and 50+ points!! And yes, I know scoring isn't everything... he was playing top level defense (All NBA Defensive 1st Team and the Laker's best defender)... and was also the primary play-maker/creator on the Lakers. The guy was literally doing everything! Score + Defend + Create for the team. That Lakers team didn't have the best record only because we had a fat, lazy Shaq and a lot of crap for depth.
You know I’m high on Kobe but 03 is def Duncan, they won 10 more games and that was probably Duncan’s best defensive year or up there, and it ended up being his peak year
07, I do think Kobe was the most impressive player in the sense that you just couldn’t stop him 1v1 that year but at the same time he had an issue that that year especially he really wasn’t passing it. I don’t blame him for it when kwame is saying don’t pass the ball to him, but in terms of his impact it gets lowered a lot relative to his talent because of that
What are you talking about? LMAO
2007 Kobe was literally top 5 in APG amongst non-point guards.
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:49 pm
by Texas Chuck
I think Kobe should have won MVP his final year too. I mean did you see he scored 60 points in his last ever game? Did Timmy do this? Nash? Dirk? KG? Nope, only Kobe.
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:56 pm
by megarover
06 Kobe
11 Howard
17 Harden
Some of these arguments for Kobe (03) and Lebron (17) are subpar.
Re: How many 21st century MVP selections do you disagree with?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:04 pm
by falcolombardi
I think they generally are all valid per mvp usual criteria
Even rose as the best player on a 60 win league leading team makes sense by usual mvp rules
IF we wanted mvp to be explicitly about best player i think 2017 westbrook, 2011 rose and 2001 iverson are questionable as none of them had a serious argument for leagur best player (and i am high as hell on peak westbrook)
Every other mvp who in hidsight we dont see as the best player in the league that year was at least the best regular season player that year