RealGM

How would you rank these players at their peaks?

Kemp/Blake
Webber
Love

Webber
Kemp
Griffin
Love

Kevin Love
Griffin
Webber
Kemp

Love got into being elite, like best in the world level on multiple aspects of the game. Pretty consistently led all star level season into his 30’s.

He is by far and categorically of peak, prime, and longevity the best here.

Love just did a bench play season where he was at least as good as any Webber year.

Griffin never got into being elite at anything. Spacing, rebounding, passing, even rim pressure/finishing was all…not game breaking or close.

But his defense was consistent and underrated. Could guard his position quite well. His offense was much more play finishing oriented than people assume in his prime. His initiator and creating ability was:

1. Unsustainable on motor
2. Not worthy of serious defensive attention most times. This wasn’t Zion on raw rim pressure, and it wasn’t KG on passing level and vision. It was some lower level, thing.

Kemp was mentally a mess in his career. Not good positionally on defense despite all the athleticism. Ridiculous foul rates which plagued him. Was out of shape fast and left his true prime as quickly as he entered it. Not a passer or shot creator. Really has no business being compared to legitimate All-NBA guy in any era like Love. And falls short to all star level Griffin on any real value.

Webber duly thrived at little on an elite level. No real stand out strengths or weaknesses. Well depending on how you view his shot creation and selection.

Love is tiered up regardless.

Here's what I would have as the peak regular season (r) & playoff run (p) for each of these four fours...

01 K Love r13-14: 26.9 PER | .591 TS% | 14.3 WS | .245 WS/48 | 120 ORtg | 104 DRtg
01 K Love p16-17: 19.7 PER | .604 TS% | 2.1 WS | .178 WS/48 | 120 ORtg | 107 DRtg

02 S Kemp r93-94: 22.9 PER | .593 TS% | 11.7 WS | .216 WS/48 | 112 ORtg | 96 DRtg
02 S Kemp p95-96: 23.6 PER | .640 TS% | 3.0 WS | .198 WS/48 | 111 ORtg | 99 DRtg

03 B Griffin r13-14: 23.9 PER | .589 TS% | 12.2 WS | .205 WS/48 | 114 ORtg | 103 DRtg
03 B Griffin p14-15: 24.8 PER | .557 TS% | 2.1 WS | .179 WS/48 | 112 ORtg | 105 DRtg

04 Webber r00-01: 24.7 PER | .516 TS% | 11.0 WS | .186 WS/48 | 105 ORtg | 97 DRtg
04 Webber p01-02: 22.7 PER | .523 TS% | 2.2 WS | .157 WS/48 | 107 ORtg | 102 DRtg

ShotCreator wrote:Kevin Love
Griffin
Webber
Kemp

Love got into being elite, like best in the world level on multiple aspects of the game. Pretty consistently led all star level season into his 30’s.

He is by far and categorically of peak, prime, and longevity the best here.

Love just did a bench play season where he was at least as good as any Webber year.

Griffin never got into being elite at anything. Spacing, rebounding, passing, even rim pressure/finishing was all…not game breaking or close.

But his defense was consistent and underrated. Could guard his position quite well. His offense was much more play finishing oriented than people assume in his prime. His initiator and creating ability was:

1. Unsustainable on motor
2. Not worthy of serious defensive attention most times. This wasn’t Zion on raw rim pressure, and it wasn’t KG on passing level and vision. It was some lower level, thing.

Kemp was mentally a mess in his career. Not good positionally on defense despite all the athleticism. Ridiculous foul rates which plagued him. Was out of shape fast and left his true prime as quickly as he entered it. Not a passer or shot creator. Really has no business being compared to legitimate All-NBA guy in any era like Love. And falls short to all star level Griffin on any real value.

Webber duly thrived at little on an elite level. No real stand out strengths or weaknesses. Well depending on how you view his shot creation and selection.

Love is tiered up regardless.

That's a lot of high praise for K-Love. But in his minny days he was putting up some insane statlines

off the top of my head, Love CWebb Griffin Kemp

I think Love was really really really good in Minnesota and I wish we could see the alternate reality where we got to see him with a team built around him for his whole career

My objective RGM-style answer:
1. Kevin Love (fantastic fantasy player during his key Minnesota years, and a solid LeBron 3rd Banana, but so many disappointments afterwards)
2. Chris Webber (nearly a legit HOF player until injuries shortened prime; probably still gets in eventually since everybody decent will at some point)
3. Blake Griffin (fairly short prime, injuries; didn't round out his game until he slowed down a bit; except for the longevity element is the flashy Vince Carter of Power Forwards with a great RS highlight reel but few playoff memories)
4. Shawn Kemp (shortest prime)

My subjective IRL old-school answer:
1. Chris Webber (off the charts in college, near-great on the Kings, though you better not have any 4th Quarter Crunch Time minutes, or he morphs into a Hot Potato Master; like Reggie he needs to switch to decaf on the broadcasts)
2. Shawn Kemp (almost as scary as C-Webb; best highlights by far; injuries via cuisine; when every day is Father's Day)
3. Blake Griffin (almost as good an in-game dunker as Reign Man; has a future as a stand-up comedian)
4. Kevin Love (though if the question were rank these 4 to get a key rebound, then Love is clearly supreme; interviews well)

My glib silly answer that belongs on The General Board, and not Player Comparisons:
1. Reign Man
2. Reign Man
3. Reign Man
4. Reign Man

1. Love
2. Griffin
3. Webber
4. Kemp

Ginoboleee wrote:My objective RGM-style answer:
1. Kevin Love (fantastic fantasy player during his key Minnesota years, and a solid LeBron 3rd Banana, but so many disappointments afterwards)
2. Chris Webber (nearly a legit HOF player until injuries shortened prime; probably still gets in eventually since everybody decent will at some point)
3. Blake Griffin (fairly short prime, injuries; didn't round out his game until he slowed down a bit; except for the longevity element is the flashy Vince Carter of Power Forwards with a great RS highlight reel but few playoff memories)
4. Shawn Kemp (shortest prime)

My subjective IRL old-school answer:
1. Chris Webber (off the charts in college, near-great on the Kings, though you better not have any 4th Quarter Crunch Time minutes, or he morphs into a Hot Potato Master; like Reggie he needs to switch to decaf on the broadcasts)
2. Shawn Kemp (almost as scary as C-Webb; best highlights by far; injuries via cuisine; when every day is Father's Day)
3. Blake Griffin (almost as good an in-game dunker as Reign Man; has a future as a stand-up comedian)
4. Kevin Love (though if the question were rank these 4 to get a key rebound, then Love is clearly supreme; interviews well)

My glib silly answer that belongs on The General Board, and not Player Comparisons:
1. Reign Man
2. Reign Man
3. Reign Man
4. Reign Man

Did Kemp really have better highlights than Blake?

1. Webber
2. Kemp
3. Griffin
4. Love

Webber and Kemp were legitimate #1s on championship level teams. Webber the best passer by far and midrange as well as back to the basket player. Kemp easily better defensively than anyone on the list, especially Love and Griffin, who were sieves. Kemp at his peak also the best finisher around the rim due to his explosive athleticism, though Griffin comes close in this regard but there's certainly no way Griffin could have led the Sonics to a Finals appearance. Love and Griffin were tertiary players at best, could never lead a team anywhere but the lottery.

ODanseTron wrote:1. Webber
2. Kemp
3. Griffin
4. Love

Webber and Kemp were legitimate #1s on championship level teams. Webber the best passer by far and midrange as well as back to the basket player. Kemp easily better defensively than anyone on the list, especially Love and Griffin, who were sieves. Kemp at his peak also the best finisher around the rim due to his explosive athleticism, though Griffin comes close in this regard but there's certainly no way Griffin could have led the Sonics to a Finals appearance. Love and Griffin were tertiary players at best, could never lead a team anywhere but the lottery.

Blake Griffin was the #1 option on the Clippers that were certainly not a lottery team...and was also the #1 on the Pistons and they made the playoffs.

Webber and Kemp are not #1s in any reality...they were on deep teams where they were technically the #1 option. They weren't the Michael Jordan of their ball clubs. That's like saying Rasheed Wallace was the #1 on a championship level team.

I dont know what you mean by #1 either. If you mean by PPG then BG would fit that description. If you mean best player on their team then Kemp was not the best player on the Sonics..

1. Griffin - Offensive force. Very good scorer, probably the best ball-handler and decision-maker even if his passing skills aren't on Webber's level. Worked hard on D but was limited.

2. Webber - SAC was good defensively and I think Webber gets a little underrated on D. He had his problems on O, mainly poor jump shooting, poor foul draw given his volume, and poor foul shooting, but he was a supremely skilled passer and the rare times he went to the post, he was effective. Great athlete.

3. Kemp - Easily the best defender of the bunch. Moved greatly laterally and was a key part of SEA's vaunted trap. Great finisher who somehow committed 4 TOVs per game despite not creating for anybody and not being a volume scorer. Maybe the dumbest offensive player who made an All-Star game in NBA history.

4. Love - He was a very underrated athlete in Minny. His IQ gets very overrated because he throws a nice outlet pass once per game. I honestly think much of his success in Minny came down to his body and athleticism (READ: motor, strength, second jump). Once he lost his weight to be a Banana Republic model, he lost his strength advantage and his FG% in the paint plummeted. Very good all-star on an excellent Minny starting 5 that had maybe the worst bench of the era.

Ginoboleee wrote:My objective RGM-style answer:
1. Kevin Love (fantastic fantasy player during his key Minnesota years, and a solid LeBron 3rd Banana, but so many disappointments afterwards)
2. Chris Webber (nearly a legit HOF player until injuries shortened prime; probably still gets in eventually since everybody decent will at some point)
3. Blake Griffin (fairly short prime, injuries; didn't round out his game until he slowed down a bit; except for the longevity element is the flashy Vince Carter of Power Forwards with a great RS highlight reel but few playoff memories)
4. Shawn Kemp (shortest prime)

My subjective IRL old-school answer:
1. Chris Webber (off the charts in college, near-great on the Kings, though you better not have any 4th Quarter Crunch Time minutes, or he morphs into a Hot Potato Master; like Reggie he needs to switch to decaf on the broadcasts)
2. Shawn Kemp (almost as scary as C-Webb; best highlights by far; injuries via cuisine; when every day is Father's Day)
3. Blake Griffin (almost as good an in-game dunker as Reign Man; has a future as a stand-up comedian)
4. Kevin Love (though if the question were rank these 4 to get a key rebound, then Love is clearly supreme; interviews well)

My glib silly answer that belongs on The General Board, and not Player Comparisons:
1. Reign Man
2. Reign Man
3. Reign Man
4. Reign Man

Agree with your observations but think Kemp was better than Griffin. Love was great offensively but Webber and Kemp's allroundness adds up to better than Love as a whole. Kemp defensively can stack up with many alltime great PFs.

migya wrote:

Ginoboleee wrote:My objective RGM-style answer:
1. Kevin Love (fantastic fantasy player during his key Minnesota years, and a solid LeBron 3rd Banana, but so many disappointments afterwards)
2. Chris Webber (nearly a legit HOF player until injuries shortened prime; probably still gets in eventually since everybody decent will at some point)
3. Blake Griffin (fairly short prime, injuries; didn't round out his game until he slowed down a bit; except for the longevity element is the flashy Vince Carter of Power Forwards with a great RS highlight reel but few playoff memories)
4. Shawn Kemp (shortest prime)

My subjective IRL old-school answer:
1. Chris Webber (off the charts in college, near-great on the Kings, though you better not have any 4th Quarter Crunch Time minutes, or he morphs into a Hot Potato Master; like Reggie he needs to switch to decaf on the broadcasts)
2. Shawn Kemp (almost as scary as C-Webb; best highlights by far; injuries via cuisine; when every day is Father's Day)
3. Blake Griffin (almost as good an in-game dunker as Reign Man; has a future as a stand-up comedian)
4. Kevin Love (though if the question were rank these 4 to get a key rebound, then Love is clearly supreme; interviews well)

My glib silly answer that belongs on The General Board, and not Player Comparisons:
1. Reign Man
2. Reign Man
3. Reign Man
4. Reign Man

Agree with your observations but think Kemp was better than Griffin. Love was great offensively but Webber and Kemp's allroundness adds up to better than Love as a whole. Kemp defensively can stack up with many alltime great PFs.

Sounds like you agree most closely with the order on my IRL/Old-School answer (which puts far less weight on analytics). It happens to also be what I see as the truth. Hence, the "IRL" phrase is not only in reference to traditional media and my generalized impression of player-on-player assessments (reputation), but to my own eye/intuition/memory. If you play by the RGM rules strictly then all these PFs had similar peaks, and should practically be in a tie, hence the fun O.P. (and my attempt in the first "objective" answer to try and break the tie by "analytics-respected" approach).