JJ Redick vs Jerry West

[Ryoga Hibiki]

A bit silly, but I was thinking... if JJ Redick would be just "teleported" into the 60s, with all the advantages modern player have (including being the only one travel on private planes...) and a little time to adjust to different rules, would he be as good as Jerry West?
If not, how good would he be?
Who's the worst player you can imagine getting to West's level?

[LAL1947]

Jerry West would still be the boss of JJ Redick. That much I can guarantee.

Not only would Redick's style of dribbling be illegal... but there was no 3-point line until 1979. If Redick was playing in the league then and called the rest of them plumbers... Jerry might have also made a point of shutting him down when they played. He probably keeps Redick to 0-1 FG of 10 FGAs before Redick's coach yanks him out of the game, lol.

[Dutchball97]

It's not a longshot to say Redick is one of the best shooters in league history but that's about it. He was an elite roleplayer, while West is a top 20 player of All-Time. West had a way more advanced scoring repertoire, while being arguably on the same level as a pure shooter as Redick if not at least close. West was also a much better playmaker with superior handles and passing. While it's harder to see in the data, West was also a way better defender. His 5 All-Defensive team selections should speak for enough but that doesn't even account for the fact that the award didn't exist untill 68/69 when West was already 30. So in short West is better at everything than Redick except for shooting from deep and even that's questionable without the 3 point line being there in the 60s.

I get that sports evolve and that sending a current player back in time would probably make them look better than they do now but comparing one of the best players in NBA history to a roleplayer is taking it way too far. I think someone like Mike Conley would be a more interesting starting point. He's no MVP level player but he's an All-Star with a varied scoring game, playmaking chops and some ability on the defensive end. I'd likely still pick West in this comparison but it at least becomes something you have to take a moment to think about.

[LAL1947]

One thing I forgot to mention is that even if you teleported JJ Redick back in time, he would still have to wear old school shoes. The pair he'd be wearing at the time of this teleportation wouldn't last.

What is the impact of that on Redick's ankles?

[HeartBreakKid]

He might get eyes to turn on him and the media might prop up his new age way of playing, but he still wouldn't be that impactful.

He's not a very athletic wing, so that wouldn't help a lot in the 60s. There might be less athletic guards back then, so even if it's not a blatant a weakness as it is today it would be more of a neutrality at best. Compared to forwards JJ would still be a peon athletically from the 60s.

Great shooter, but obviously diminished from lack of 3 point shooting. He would likely just be a role player, a guy who runs around and pops jumpers - which is what he was when he played except he'd shoot closer to the rim.

Being a modern player his shooting range would be further than most players, around Jerry West's, but there would be less incentive to shoot from out there.

I don't really see what else he would do. He didn't have great handles, and if the argument is he doesn't have great handles because he's compared to modern players - well, those modern techniques would be illegal in the 60s so it'd be moot regardless.

Jerry West is one of the best players ever, and is probably a better shooter than JJ which is why JJ is in the NBA. Take into account that West is obviously taller and longer, and more athletic (which I suppose Reddick/pro modern game people would disagree), it's rather obvious JJ would not be as good as West.

This does mean that JJ's argument about how anyone in the NBA would destroy anyone from before the 80s is false. It's actually obvious that it is false because like some 80s players obviously played in the 70s. JJ Reddick probably never thought too much about why players play the way that they do.

[penbeast0]

In answer to your second question, the worst player with all modern advantages to match up to West would probably be Dwyane Wade. Quicker and more explosive than West, similar defensive ability, West is the superior outside shooter and playmaker. West still probably better in his day but it would be close.

[OdomFan]

Sounds like a Adam Sandler comedy hoops movie to me.

Sandler as 30 year old JJ Reddick from the 2014-2015 Los Anglees Clippers teleports over into Los Angeles circa 1969 where a 30 year old Jerry West and the Lakers are practicing to get ready for a game that they're about to play that evening. For the heck of it lets go with the Knicks.

Reddick(Sandler) appears out of no where in the middle of the court wearing his Clippers Jersey from 2015, and now suddenly he has the entire team crowding around him. Wondering how he did that, who he is, and what the heck is the Los Angeles Clippers? Reddick has no idea what's going on..but then he recognizes Jerry West standing there looking young. To make a long story short JJ tells everyone he's from the future, and who he is...then just before he's about to get kicked out of the arena one of the players, Johnny Egan says wait, and says he wants to see what this guy is all about. So after murmuring it over a bit they all agree to give him shot. So they throw him the ball and JJ then begins to wow them by schooling Egar left and right, and showing off a long range shot that reminds them all of what only one other man on the court can do. Jerry West himself.

Jerry asks him again what his name is. JJ repeats it. Everyones wondering why his name is JJ if there's only one J name in his name and JJ just shrugs. Elgin Baylor then replies "JJ? nah man. His momma named him Clay, Ima call him Clay". The Lakers officially sign Clay Reddick and he goes on to practice 1 on 1 with Jerry West every practice night with the team in scrimmages, and plays out the whole season. They don't win the championship, but when he gets back to the present JJ Reddick has a whole new respect for those firemen of the older days. The movie ends with him approaching the older Jerry at some point and the two of them exchange pleasant words.

[DQuinn1575]

Reddick didnt rebound, get assists, steals, or blocks. He averaged less than 4 assists and 4 rebounds per 48, no guard playing 500 games did this prior to the 3 point error. He's most similar to Don Ohl, Jon McGlocklin, George Lehman, Adrian Smith.

So he makes the league, maybe makes an all-star game

[70sFan]

Adrian Smith is a decent comparison for Redick, though he was bigger and more athletic.

[RCM88x]

I don't think Redick's game would have been a good fit for the NBA, but the ABA? That could be more interesting.

His physical limitations will forever cap his value however, the fact he played in the NBA for as long as he did and was as good as he was is a incredibly impressive feat.

[CharityStripe34]

This is a ridiculous topic. Comparing eras in NBA hoops has turned toxic.

Reddick would get dominated by Jerry. Or Oscar. Or Sam Jones.

[Statlanta]

Jerry West was a good defender in Chuck Taylors. Enough said

[trex_8063]

One thing I forgot to mention is that even if you teleported JJ Redick back in time, he would still have to wear old school shoes. The pair he'd be wearing at the time of this teleportation wouldn't last.

What is the impact of that on Redick's ankles?

Indeed. Floors not kept as well either. No rule preventing from defender from stepping into your landing zone, either.


Not that Redick did much ball-handling, but also note that by ~1965 rules, someone like Chris Paul is guilty of about a half-dozen carries every time he brings the ball up the court, too.

[trex_8063]

Reddick didnt rebound, get assists, steals, or blocks. He averaged less than 4 assists and 4 rebounds per 48, no guard playing 500 games did this prior to the 3 point error. He's most similar to Don Ohl, Jon McGlocklin, George Lehman, Adrian Smith.

So he makes the league, maybe makes an all-star game

Jon McGlocklin is actually an outstanding suggestion of what kind of player JJ Redick was likely to be in West's era. Quick release catch-and-shoot guy who was outstanding from 14-22' [even by today's standards] who played a similar role as Redick (little worry in my mind he could extend that range if given a 3pt line). Career 84.5% FT-shooter [86.1% if we exclude his first two seasons], peaking at 90% [twice].

Limited rebounder and play-maker [like Redick], somewhat limited defensively [like Redick], similar build as Redick, similar athleticism [or only marginally less, at worst] as Redick, 2" taller than Redick.

Other than his career being shorter, he's actually strikingly similar.

[trex_8063]

Adrian Smith is a decent comparison for Redick, though he was bigger and more athletic.

Odie's a good suggestion, but I feel like his offensive role involved more ball-handling than Redick's ever has.

I kinda like DQuinn's suggestion of Jon McGlocklin; that seems like the closest West-era comparison for Redick.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Jerry West is a 1962 Shelby 260 Cobra

JJ Reddick is a 2018 Kia Stinger

You can argue that the Kia is a better car. With all of the advancements that have been made since the 60's it's not that hard to get a car to go faster around the track than the Cobra; however, relative to their time there is absolutely no way the Kia is in the same class as the Shelby.

In 10 years the Kia will get recycled while the Shelby will be in a museum.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Jerry West is a 1962 Shelby 260 Cobra

JJ Reddick is a 2018 Kia Stinger

You can argue that the Kia is better car. With of all the advancements that have been made since the 60's it's not that hard to get a car to go faster around the track than the Cobra; however, relative to their time there is absolutely no way the Kia is in the same class as the Shelby.

In 10 years the Kia will get recycled while the Shelby will be in a museum.

The car comparison is actually a really nice one lol

[Samurai]

Jon McGlocklin is actually an outstanding suggestion of what kind of player JJ Redick was likely to be in West's era. Quick release catch-and-shoot guy who was outstanding from 14-22' [even by today's standards] who played a similar role as Redick (little worry in my mind he could extend that range if given a 3pt line). Career 84.5% FT-shooter [86.1% if we exclude his first two seasons], peaking at 90% [twice].

Limited rebounder and play-maker [like Redick], somewhat limited defensively [like Redick], similar build as Redick, similar athleticism [or only marginally less, at worst] as Redick, 2" taller than Redick.

Other than his career being shorter, he's actually strikingly similar.

I agree with McGlocklin being a pretty good era comp for Redick. Just wanted to make a comment abut the defense. Not saying that this is the be-all/end-all by any stretch, but if memory serves I think the 1971 Strat-O-Matic cards had McGlocklin's defense as a 1-5 (1-6 was the maximum rating which guys like West had). So a 5 was very good. While he could have trouble with quicker PG's, he was certainly serviceable there as well. When Oscar joined the team in 71, I remember that the Bucks routinely had Jonny Mac guard the PG some of the time and put the aging Oscar on the bigger, slower SG. And the Bucks still maintained a top ranked defense during that time. Granted the Bucks had some tall guy as their center who could help cover any weaknesses, but Jonny Mac's defense was pretty solid in holding the backcourt defense intact until Lucius Allen gained experience (Allen was an excellent defender). I'd put Jonny Mac's defense at a level above Redick's.

[70sFan]

Jerry West is a 1962 Shelby 260 Cobra

JJ Reddick is a 2018 Kia Stinger

You can argue that the Kia is better car. With of all the advancements that have been made since the 60's it's not that hard to get a car to go faster around the track than the Cobra; however, relative to their time there is absolutely no way the Kia is in the same class as the Shelby.

In 10 years the Kia will get recycled while the Shelby will be in a museum.

The car comparison is actually a really nice one lol

The car comparison is always horrible, because cars get much better in time due to advanced technology. Human beings don't evolve across 50 years.

[70sFan]

Adrian Smith is a decent comparison for Redick, though he was bigger and more athletic.

Odie's a good suggestion, but I feel like his offensive role involved more ball-handling than Redick's ever has.

I kinda like DQuinn's suggestion of Jon McGlocklin; that seems like the closest West-era comparison for Redick.

I think Jon was bigger and more versatile defensively, I don't think he was bad at all from what I've seen. Not a bad comparison though.