Highest reasonable ranking for Reggie Miller?

[Matt15]

What is the highest reasonable all-time ranking for Reggie Miller?

[falcolombardi]

He may bw ike one of the 15-20 most impactful offensive players ever with solid defense, specially in the playoffs

A top 30 ranking ia not out of question

[Cavsfansince84]

I would say roughly 30-33 as highest reasonable but this depends a lot on criteria though and how much you value longevity. I'd say realistically more like 35 because I'd have trouble putting him ahead of Hondo/Barry/Baylor and they are right in that range.

[Jaivl]

I don't think it's a given that he's any worse than Steph Curry ITO career. I could see late 10s to 50s, probably the biggest "reasonable" range for a modern player.

[Narigo]

Top 40

[Purch]

I don't think it's a given that he's any worse than Steph Curry ITO career. I could see late 10s to 50s, probably the biggest "reasonable" range for a modern player.

What? You do realize that at no point in Reggie Miller's career did he even finish top 10 in mvp voting. You might be way overrating the player he was.

Hell I would say there's multiple seasons of Steph's career I'd put over Reggie's best season. Not even gonna discuss his unanimous mvp season. Reggie was a lot closer to Ray Allen than Steph Curry.

Between 10-20 would be a huge leap. Hell I'd need to see a really good argument for top 30. 30-50 seems like a solid range for him.

At his own position he wasn't better than Jordan, Kobe, Wade, West or Harden.

[Stan]

3 career All-NBA Teams, all 3rd Teams

Received MVP votes in 2 seasons, never finished higher than 13th

For as many huge baskets as he made in the playoffs, his resume and productions is obv good, but FAR from elite. Anything higher than top 50 would be greatly overrating him imo.

[No-more-rings]

Reggie was ahead of his time in many ways, so even to this day he probably doesn’t get the respect he deserves. I wouldn’t really fight it if someone wanted to put him top 30. He has great longevity and usually upped his play in the postseason which you can’t even say about half the guys in the top 20 for example.

[DNice68]

3 career All-NBA Teams, all 3rd Teams

Received MVP votes in 2 seasons, never finished higher than 13th

For as many huge baskets as he made in the playoffs, his resume and productions is obv good, but FAR from elite. Anything higher than top 50 would be greatly overrating him imo.

Yep this is on point. He also couldn’t dribble the basketball, rebound, or play d!

[capfan33]

Based on career value top 40, but hes a pure longevity guy which I don't value as much. So for me closer to top 50-60.

[Colbinii]

I don't think it's a given that he's any worse than Steph Curry ITO career. I could see late 10s to 50s, probably the biggest "reasonable" range for a modern player.

What? You do realize that at no point in Reggie Miller's career did he even finish top 10 in mvp voting. You might be way overrating the player he was.

Hell I would say there's multiple seasons of Steph's career I'd put over Reggie's best season. Not even gonna discuss his unanimous mvp season. Reggie was a lot closer to Ray Allen than Steph Curry.

Between 10-20 would be a huge leap. Hell I'd need to see a really good argument for top 30. 30-50 seems like a solid range for him.

At his own position he wasn't better than Jordan, Kobe, Wade, West or Harden.

I can see arguments over West, Wade and Harden. Kobe is tougher.

[PistolPeteJR]

I don't think it's a given that he's any worse than Steph Curry ITO career. I could see late 10s to 50s, probably the biggest "reasonable" range for a modern player.

What? You do realize that at no point in Reggie Miller's career did he even finish top 10 in mvp voting. You might be way overrating the player he was.

Hell I would say there's multiple seasons of Steph's career I'd put over Reggie's best season. Not even gonna discuss his unanimous mvp season. Reggie was a lot closer to Ray Allen than Steph Curry.

Between 10-20 would be a huge leap. Hell I'd need to see a really good argument for top 30. 30-50 seems like a solid range for him.

At his own position he wasn't better than Jordan, Kobe, Wade, West or Harden.

I can see arguments over West, Wade and Harden. Kobe is tougher.

Over Wade and West? Really?

[Colbinii]

What? You do realize that at no point in Reggie Miller's career did he even finish top 10 in mvp voting. You might be way overrating the player he was.

Hell I would say there's multiple seasons of Steph's career I'd put over Reggie's best season. Not even gonna discuss his unanimous mvp season. Reggie was a lot closer to Ray Allen than Steph Curry.

Between 10-20 would be a huge leap. Hell I'd need to see a really good argument for top 30. 30-50 seems like a solid range for him.

At his own position he wasn't better than Jordan, Kobe, Wade, West or Harden.

I can see arguments over West, Wade and Harden. Kobe is tougher.

Over Wade and West? Really?

If you value more recent players and believe in the a time machine methodologies then Miller has a good case over West. West also never had a perimeter player of the same position as Jordans as a contemporary [Oscar is close but didn't have the post-season success Jordan did].

Wade has terrible longevity and isn't the maximized in the modern era as a mediocre shooter.

Seeing arguments comes with being open minded.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

Some numbers to consider..

Reggie Miller career ranks in NBA history (RS):
Points: 22nd
Offensive Rating: 4th
Offensive Win Shares: 9th
Total Win Shares: 18th
True Shooting %: 11th
Value Over Replacement Player: 21st
Offensive Box Plus/Minus: 32nd
Total Box Plus/Minus: 47th

Reggie Miller career ranks in NBA history (PS):
Points: 28th
Offensive Rating: 14th
Offensive Win Shares: 11th
Total Win Shares: 24th
True Shooting %: 11th
Value Over Replacement Player: 27th
Offensive Box Plus/Minus: 17th
Total Box Plus/Minus: 30th

Longevity? CHECK

Now here's 5 playoff stat lines:

A) 36.3 points per 100 on 45/40/91 splits (61.6% TS) with a 116 ORTG and 6.8 OBPM
B) 33.5 points per 100 on 47/39/89 splits (58.4% TS) with a 118 ORTG and 5.7 OBPM
C) 35.4 points per 100 on 48/36/91 splits (60.2% TS) with a 121 ORTG and 6.3 OBPM
D) 33.3 points per 100 on 46/41/89 splits (60.4% TS) with a 121 ORTG and 6.1 OBPM
E) 36.5 points per 100 on 48/44/86 splits (62.4% TS) with a 125 ORTG and 7.1 OBPM

Whose statlines are they?

Spoiler:

A) = 5 year peak Steph Curry from 2015-2019 (91 playoff games)
B) = 11 year prime Dirk Nowitzki from 2002-2012 (118 playoff games)
C) = 6 year peak Dirk Nowitzki from 2006-2011 (71 playoff games)
D) = 11 year prime Reggie Miller from 1992-2002 (101 playoff games)
E) = 5 year peak Reggie Miller from 1992-1996 (41 playoff games)

Peak? CHECK
Prime? CHECK
Playoff resiliency? CHECK

Reggie's peak and prime PS offensive production stack right up there with two of the greatest offensive anchors in NBA history. That's because Reggie is likewise one of the greatest offensive anchors in NBA history

From ages 22-34, Reggie led the Pacers in Win Shares for a remarkable 14 straight seasons, including a run of 10 plus offenses in 11 seasons despite some offensively challenged supporting casts for much of the time

Spoiler:

Season and league rank of Indy's offense:
1990: 7th
1991: 7th
1992: 6th
1993: 5th
1994: 11th
1995: 8th
1996: 6th
1997: 14th
1998: 4th
1999: 1st
2000: 1st

In terms of how resilient Miller-led offenses were in the playoffs, I'll defer to Ben Taylor who already articulated it better than I can:

Spoiler:

https://backpicks.com/2018/01/18/backpicks-goat-29-reggie-miller/

Along with Magic and Kobe, Reggie is one of three players in history to play on two separate teams with five-year stretches of +5 playoff offenses. Below, I’ve plotted these “unique” five-year stretches by regular and postseason offense:



During those years, the average defensive efficiency of Indiana’s postseason opponent’s was around 102, and yet the Pacers still scored 109.5 points per 100, near their regular season output. To borrow an economic concept, their Miller-centric offenses were inelastic against stiffer defensive competition. Not only did this decade of sustained playoff excellence coincide with Miller’s primacy, but when he missed most of the ’96 postseason with an eye injury, Indiana produced its only below-average postseason offense of the decade.

Team lifting? CHECK


So with all that said, I have Reggie within the top 30 and I do believe that's a reasonable ranking

[70sFan]

I can see him inside top 30, though I probably have him slightly lower. Still, a clear top 40 in my opinion.

[Stalwart]

Its easy to throw out things like "top 30" but its much harder to actually justify it. Is it possible to have a consistent criteria that puts Reggie in the top 30? I don't think so. There are so many players with better numbers, more individual achievement, more team success, a wider array of skills, and so on.

[Jaivl]

I don't think it's a given that he's any worse than Steph Curry ITO career. I could see late 10s to 50s, probably the biggest "reasonable" range for a modern player.

What? You do realize that at no point in Reggie Miller's career did he even finish top 10 in mvp voting. You might be way overrating the player he was.

Hell I would say there's multiple seasons of Steph's career I'd put over Reggie's best season.

Oh, don't get me wrong, every prime Curry season is easily above Reggie's peak to me.

Just saying, he's basically Curry's equal as a scorer, and has a huge longevity edge. Imagine he's a bit better than we give him credit for, like +0.5 points better every year, which honestly seems perfectly possible, and there's probably a not-too-outrageous case to be made.

[70sFan]

Its easy to throw out things like "top 30" but its much harder to actually justify it. Is it possible to have a consistent criteria that puts Reggie in the top 30? I don't think so. There are so many players with better numbers, more individual achievement, more team success, a wider array of skills, and so on.

I think Ben Taylor justified it just fine in his top 40 project.

[xinxin]

3 career All-NBA Teams, all 3rd Teams

Received MVP votes in 2 seasons, never finished higher than 13th

For as many huge baskets as he made in the playoffs, his resume and productions is obv good, but FAR from elite. Anything higher than top 50 would be greatly overrating him imo.

Yup. Where’s all this Reggie Miller love coming from?

He wasn’t even a first ballot Hall of Famer. He was able to get in during one of those lean years….

One of the few in the NBA Top 75 that was a Questionable inclusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PistolPeteJR]

I can see arguments over West, Wade and Harden. Kobe is tougher.

Over Wade and West? Really?

If you value more recent players and believe in the a time machine methodologies then Miller has a good case over West. West also never had a perimeter player of the same position as Jordans as a contemporary [Oscar is close but didn't have the post-season success Jordan did].

Wade has terrible longevity and isn't the maximized in the modern era as a mediocre shooter.

Seeing arguments comes with being open minded.

I mean I argue with your last point, but I just think Wade's peak was so much higher than Reggie's. Much better defender too at their respective peaks. Much better playmaker, finisher... Reggie gets longevity and shooting, which are valuable, but Wade covers a significant number of other skills in the game and dominated them in ways very few guards have.