So I sort of drafted a response to OP saying 1) I liked that decent NBA career was given a hard definition to focus the debate. 2) That Giannis was more over that bar than he was low on the pre-NBA bar (ditto Jokic, and noted some positive pre-draft projections) 3) Some messy contemplation on draft position as a proxy.
But I wasn't happy with it .
giberish wrote:Cavsfansince84 wrote:giberish wrote:
Not really. Even relatively casual fans had heard of VanVleet in college. He wasn't seen as a big NBA prospect but had a significant career (especially compared to Rodman or Eaton for example). His ppg wasn't that high as he was a pass-first PG.
A lot of nba fans barely follow college, more so for guys who are not considered elite prospects. I hope you are not referencing nba fans here knowing who VanVleet was.
He was 1st team all-conference 3 times. Conference POY twice. Only honorable mention AP All-American but did so in 3 seasons. Made a few other all-american teams. Some early season injuries kept his SR year totals down. While he played at a smaller college he was on a final four team one year, and a team that started 31-0 another year that kept them in the national media (including an SI cover).
While not the most decorated college career of all-time, he was very, very, very far from obscure. He was just seen as a college star that wasn't much of an NBA prospect so he didn't get drafted. Which is really the opposite of what the OP was asking for.
So I don't follow NCAA but I know there were BPM based NCAA based projections that rated VanVleet
very high. Thus I would argue it was plausibly more a case of scouts/GMs missing the boat (and I don't know about this stuff, but I've heard some players/agents try pushing back on getting picked in the second round - prefer the freedom if not given the security of a 1st round pick, don't know if that was in play back then or for him specifically) than FVV not showing stuff in the NCAA.
So whilst a high pick would be close to (though perhaps not quite) a disqualifier for me in terms of being eligible as it would seem you had to have shown something pre-NBA (or poor GM judgement is the alternative/getaround) I do think in this instance FVV appears to have shown the ability and a lot of people just missed it, figured he didn't translate.
I will note that FVV too is far exceeding the minimum bar OP gave for decent career. As such it seems to be going for a "greatest gap" rather than "worst pre-NBA 'youth'" career that got to NBA at a certain minimum level (200g) which is more how OP framed it.
More generally I wouldn't claim any expertise in comparing the value/level of competition/ achievements in different conferences, DI, DII, DIII, high school or youth international competition.