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The main impact would probably be on Karl Malone's legacy.

Even though he would be no better as a player... he would have 5 scoring titles along with that crazy longevity, potentially 3 straight MVPs, likely a ring or two as well.

How do you think that would impact the narrative around him? Again, none of that stuff changes who he is as a player. Getting a scoring title... doesn't really mean anything.
But of course most people just count awards (and rings).

Do you think there would be talk of Malone being fringe top 10?

Are you butterfly effect-ing this where we're simming history over 1000 times from '84 on (assuming no NCAA level repercussions affect the pros).

Or something like real "as it transpired" teams held constant (as if the Bull's penalized a pick or some tragedy befell MJ that meant he couldn't play or he suddenly decided he wanted to give baseball a real good go for the next 20 years) and you don't mess about too much with playoff matchups although that can get messy.

Relevant because for instance, maybe the Bulls take Barkley (IRL 5th pick] (and possibly down the line take Miller to fill the gap at the 2 with the Grant pick [Grant IRL 10th, Miller 11th], hard a loss as Grant is) and build a contender in a different image.

Legacy, titles etc would be much harder in the "re-run" and it's more about who you think the best players were, the latter may be easier for a superficial run through.


On Malone ... I get it, as it is he's sometimes an "also ran" without a title. At the same time - based on holding everything else the same - you can only project one extra MVP ('98). I suppose it depends how the changes make people read the narrative and how the chips fall titles-wise. I can certainly see it possible that with a bunch of scoring titles, a title or two, maybe three straight MVPs (if no butterfly effect) he could be rocketed way up in the popular perception.

Ein Sof wrote:The main impact would probably be on Karl Malone's legacy.

Even though he would be no better as a player... he would have 5 scoring titles along with that crazy longevity, potentially 3 straight MVPs, likely a ring or two as well.

How do you think that would impact the narrative around him? Again, none of that stuff changes who he is as a player. Getting a scoring title... doesn't really mean anything.
But of course most people just count awards (and rings).

Do you think there would be talk of Malone being fringe top 10?

My initial response when seeing the thread title was going to be Lebron, as he'd then have a legitimate case for GOAT... which I do not think he has now. That would be worth a lot. Kobe would have also got more love as the original rather than the copy.

I think you are right though, so good call. Karl Malone is quite close to Tim Duncan as a player. Karl was more talented offensively and a better athlete while Duncan was taller, a better defender and more intelligent. Both had long careers so longevity is on par. Yet we see one being put in Top 5-10 lists and the other being put in Top 20-30 lists because of the titles. So if Malone had those rings and scoring titles to go with his 37,000 points, I think he'd be viewed and discussed in a similar way to Duncan.

Then we have the Pistons, Barkley, Ewing, Miller, Payton-Kemp, Stockton... even Magic and Shaq... whose legacies could all have been better as they could have won more titles.

Kobe may have passed more and been a fair bit better.

Owly wrote:Are you butterfly effect-ing this where we're simming history over 1000 times from '84 on (assuming no NCAA level repercussions affect the pros).

Or something like real "as it transpired" teams held constant (as if the Bull's penalized a pick or some tragedy befell MJ that meant he couldn't play or he suddenly decided he wanted to give baseball a real good go for the next 20 years) and you don't mess about too much with playoff matchups although that can get messy.

Relevant because for instance, maybe the Bulls take Barkley (IRL 5th pick] (and possibly down the line take Miller to fill the gap at the 2 with the Grant pick [Grant IRL 10th, Miller 11th], hard a loss as Grant is) and build a contender in a different image.

Legacy, titles etc would be much harder in the "re-run" and it's more about who you think the best players were, the latter may be easier for a superficial run through.


On Malone ... I get it, as it is he's sometimes an "also ran" without a title. At the same time - based on holding everything else the same - you can only project one extra MVP ('98). I suppose it depends how the changes make people read the narrative and how the chips fall titles-wise. I can certainly see it possible that with a bunch of scoring titles, a title or two, maybe three straight MVPs (if no butterfly effect) he could be rocketed way up in the popular perception.

My intent was to change things as little as possible. So it's the 90s except MJ simply isn't around.

Also for simplicity's sake the Bulls lose the 3rd pick from that draft.

Then Magic is the casual GOAT, I guess, and Chuck Hayes plays point guard.

Basketball is a lot less popular but evolves in a better direction if Jordan had never been born.

Bird wins 88 MVP, Barkley wins 90 inadvertently

91 - Magic MVP, Lakers over Pistons finals
92 - Drexler MVP, Blazers over Cavs finals
93 - Barkley MVP, Suns over Cavs finals
94 - no change
95 - Same MVP, Suns over Magic finals. Drexler retires a Blazer after 92 title so Rockets don't get him.
96 - Robinson MVP, Sonics over Knicks finals
97 - Malone MVP, Jazz over Heat finals
98 - Malone MVP, Pacers over Jazz finals
99 - Mourning MVP, Spurs over Pacers finals - defending champion Pacers have mental edge over Knicks and their cinderella run with JVG was in 96

The 90s is seen as kind of like the 70s as harder to connect to storyline wise than 60s or 80s and several teams who win a title but never make another finals. Barkley a big winner with 2 titles and 2 MVPs, and the Suns offensive style of play make them one of the people's champs of the decade. Malone 2 MVPs and a title but the Pacers loss leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. Drexler a great title/MVP year, Payton a title. Mourning wins an MVP. Magic gets crowning title without Kareem and he and Bird both get treated as GOAT more often. The 98-00 Pacers go up a level historically with a title and three finals. The Cavs without Jordan owning them Lebronto style have a solid run with two finals losses before health gives out. Robinson has bigger expectations to be the next Kareem/Wilt, therefore playoff upsets are a bit more disappointing but gets a few rings in the end in 99 and 03.