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Had a bit of an argument with my friend about this, ignore Kyrie’s off the court and health stuff

I feel I’d take kyrie, although I think it’s close, although I’m on the Kyrie is a top 5 most skilled player ever camp lol

(Right now if they’re both healthy)

Edit: I would not take Kyrie lol

Career? Lillard by far.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:ignore Kyrie’s off the court and health stuff

No can do.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:ignore Kyrie’s off the court and health stuff

That would be quite hard to do

I feel I’d take kyrie, although I think it’s close,

What do you prefer in Kyrie's game over Lillard?

although I’m on the Kyrie is a top 5 most skilled player ever camp lol

"Skills" is such a fuzzy concept. Most people don't take into account things like defensive footwork, off-ball movement, shot contest technique, defending screens, setting screens or boxing out as skills, but they aren't really different than scoring skills in that you have to develop and refine them.

I'm still on the West being more skilled than Kyrie

MyUniBroDavis wrote:Had a bit of an argument with my friend about this, ignore Kyrie’s off the court and health stuff

I feel I’d take kyrie, although I think it’s close, although I’m on the Kyrie is a top 5 most skilled player ever camp lol

(Right now if they’re both healthy)

For me it depends on what Dame's defense looks like when he comes back, Kyrie isn't all that either but I feel he's still been notably better on that end since like 2018 even nearing neutral-ish in some team contexts in the RS which i just can't see ever happening for Dame. Dame has probably been nearing(or just having) all time bad defensive value for a guard the last 2 regulae seasons, and yeah it's partially because of offensive load, I still can't really see him meaningfully improving in most cases. Hurts me to say cuz he's prolly my favorite player rn but with how offenses are gonna be in the PS going foward it's possible his defensive value is even more detrimental even if he comes back with a similar skillset(alltho his offense might be more valuable, again not sure what to make of it cuz I thought his abs were fr messed up and he would come back worse), he's probably gonna consistently drop in player rankings going foward even if nothing major has changed cuz of it IMO.

Also i'm not sure what to make of Dame's PS performances, I think he's improved tremendously since 2018 but the sample of healthy games is so small and he was one of the worse looking playoff fallers for a player of his caliber before that(Kyrie has definitely had his problems too tho lol Budenholzer has had his number for years and I wasn't that impressed with him last season either rly), think Dame still prolly struggles with aggressive screen coverages and his offense is pretty predictable so idk.

Will say I do think Dame is probably more valuable offensively in most cases bc Kyrie has pretty clear play recognition/processing speed issues IMO and some rly odd shot selection, Dame is probably str8 an ATG offensive player the RS. If he has the same problems as a primary I might go Kyrie, who seems to consistently be very valuable when paired alongside one and asked to primarily score and I think he could perform better than Dame in that role cuz of his off ball value anf scoring versatility w/ better defense. For now i'll go Dame though until I see how they react to the league's developments ig

The top-5 most skilled ever convo for me is kinda weird to me because I feel alot of Kyrie's skills are just alot more useful in non-NBA basketball settings, how do you balance that out? I surely don't think he is nearing top 5 when looking at what skills are the most useful for the NBA. Someone like Steve Nash is who I would consider in the upper echelon for "skilled" players even though it's extremely vague. My interpretation is that your definition for "skilled" has some tax for traditional athleticism or something similar, but not rly for functional athleticism for a player like Larry Bird for example.

70sFan wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:ignore Kyrie’s off the court and health stuff

That would be quite hard to do

I feel I’d take kyrie, although I think it’s close,

What do you prefer in Kyrie's game over Lillard?

although I’m on the Kyrie is a top 5 most skilled player ever camp lol

"Skills" is such a fuzzy concept. Most people don't take into account things like defensive footwork, off-ball movement, shot contest technique, defending screens, setting screens or boxing out as skills, but they aren't really different than scoring skills in that you have to develop and refine them.

I'm still on the West being more skilled than Kyrie

Oh I was talking purely on offense. Defense is a skill too of course, but I kind of put it in the same category as IQ (which of course many would consider a skill as well)

Thinking about it, I think Lillard is more impactful for sure, I think lillards been a top tier offensive impact guy for a minute even with his down year this year, and defensively they’re a wash.

I might act go towards Lillard actually. It’s hard because Kyrie was pretty bleh for the Celtics, although I think that was more than just his level of play, and I think he’s been great for the nets but he rarely plays

Otoh, i think Kyrie could emulate Lillards volume scoring in a better pick and roll based offense, and it’s a thing of ability vs deployment I guess. He has been doing that more in Brooklyn and looks better

I do feel Kyrie before this past season (where he’s been a part timer lol) had the type of season offensively I think that matches his ability though

I feel comparing him to lillard, lillard is a better passer, 3 point shooter, and has a better overall iq, Kyrie is a better finisher, 1v1 scorer, midrange game

I guess thinking about it lillard probably is better in more important areas for today, while still being elite in the areas Kyrie is elite in. I do think Kyrie can be up there as well in terms of offensive impact though, and I think he probably was in 2021

As for skills, I think with Kyrie there is a bit of an iq vs skills thing there. Because of him not being too athletic he’s not a Lebron level finisher, and he tends to bite off more than he can chew at times in that regard (some of those layup attempts be crazy).

At the same time in terms of purely skill wise I think of him as an elite three point shooter, an ATG midrange shooter, (this one might be controversial lol) probably the most skilled finisher ever (although he doesn’t pick his spots as well as some more effecient ones like Curry), and I think he’s got the GOAT handles by a pretty large distance

Of course many consider iq to be a skill too which is fair, and if you do I think Kyrie isn’t top ten, although I wouldn’t say he’s poor in that regard

Proxy wrote:The top-5 most skilled ever convo for me is kinda weird to me because I feel alot of Kyrie's skills are just alot more useful in non-NBA basketball settings, how do you balance that out? I surely don't think he is nearing top 5 when looking at what skills are the most useful for the NBA. Someone like Steve Nash is who I would consider in the upper echelon for "skilled" players even though it's extremely vague. My interpretation is that your definition for "skilled" has some tax for traditional athleticism or something similar, but not rly functional athleticism like what a player like Larry Bird.

Skills are gonna be based off our subjective interpretations, I don’t really put IQ into that, which I get is controversial, since elite playmaking and knowing when to pick your shots (shot selection basically lol) are arguably the most impactful offensive skill compared to individual aspects of scoring

Like finishing wise for example, while I do think curry is one of the most skilled finishers in the league, I think Kyrie is a good deal better, but Curry is better at picking his spots if that makes sense. Their efficiencies aren’t too different but I feel Kyrie takes a bunch of ridiculous ones (and makes a lot of them) whereas with Curry there’s a earlier area of difficulty you kind of expect him to miss, if that makes sense.