TOP guards rank in 2013 season

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TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#1 » by SpreeS » Mon Aug 8, 2022 6:46 am

We have TOP (Parker/Kobe/Westbrook/Curry/Paul/Wade/Harden) guards in 2013 season. How would look your TOP7 list? I dont see here clearly the best/the worst player, its very competetive list.

Parker 2nd option (58w/NBA Finals)
RS 66G 20.3pts 3reb 7.6ast .588ts 3.86RAPM
PS 21G 20.6pts 3.2reb 7ast .521ts

Harden 1st option (45w/1st rnd)
RS 78G 25.9pts 4.9reb 5.8ast .600ts 0.25RAPM
PS 6G 26.3pts 6.7reb 4.5ast .548ts

Curry 1st option (47w/2nd rnd)
RS 78G 22.9pts 4reb 6.9ast .589ts 1.63RAPM
PS 12G 23.4pts 3.8reb 8.1ast .558ts

Westbrook 2nd option (60w/1st rnd/injury)
RS 82G 23.2pts 5.2reb 7.4ast .532ts 2.34RAPM
PS 2G 24.0pts 6.5reb 7ast .509ts

Kobe 1st option (45w/1st rnd/injury)
RS 78G 27.3pts 5.6reb 6.0ast .570ts 1.02RAMP
PS injury

Paul 1st option (56w/1st rnd)
RS 70G 16.9pts 3.7reb 9.7ast .594ts 3.66RAMP
PS 6G 22.8pts 4reb 6.3ast .633ts

Wade 2nd option (66w/Champion)
RS 69G 21.2pts 5reb 5.1ast .571ts 2.76RAPM
PS 22G 15.9pts 4.6reb 4.8ast .498ts
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#2 » by Dutchball97 » Mon Aug 8, 2022 8:19 am

I'd have Chris Paul as a clear best here to be honest. He's first by a good margin in PI RAPM, BPM and LEBRON.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#3 » by SpreeS » Mon Aug 8, 2022 8:51 am

Dutchball97 wrote:I'd have Chris Paul as a clear best here to be honest. He's first by a good margin in PI RAPM, BPM and LEBRON.


Paul and adv stats look always perfect but what about PO? After 2-0, loosing 2-4 not good sign

Paul in -11.2 netrtg
Paul out +11.39 netrtg

for example Curry

in +3.79 netrtg
out -18.65 netrtg
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#4 » by Dutchball97 » Mon Aug 8, 2022 9:35 am

SpreeS wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'd have Chris Paul as a clear best here to be honest. He's first by a good margin in PI RAPM, BPM and LEBRON.


Paul and adv stats look always perfect but what about PO? After 2-0, loosing 2-4 not good sign

Paul in -11.2 netrtg
Paul out +11.39 netrtg

for example Curry

in +3.79 netrtg
out -18.65 netrtg


on/off stats are noisy over a whole season, let alone a 6 game sample size. Even then look at the Clippers in the play-offs and see if you still think it's all Chris Paul's fault they lost to the Grizzlies. The top 5 in gamescore in the series is CP3 at #1 and then 4 Grizzlies. Blake Griffin had a bad series and DeAndre Jordan completely disappeared altogether. This is a big reason why this +- focused trend on this board is completely missing any form of context.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#5 » by SpreeS » Mon Aug 8, 2022 10:32 am

Dutchball97 wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'd have Chris Paul as a clear best here to be honest. He's first by a good margin in PI RAPM, BPM and LEBRON.


Paul and adv stats look always perfect but what about PO? After 2-0, loosing 2-4 not good sign

Paul in -11.2 netrtg
Paul out +11.39 netrtg

for example Curry

in +3.79 netrtg
out -18.65 netrtg


on/off stats are noisy over a whole season, let alone a 6 game sample size. Even then look at the Clippers in the play-offs and see if you still think it's all Chris Paul's fault they lost to the Grizzlies. The top 5 in gamescore in the series is CP3 at #1 and then 4 Grizzlies. Blake Griffin had a bad series and DeAndre Jordan completely disappeared altogether. This is a big reason why this +- focused trend on this board is completely missing any form of context.


yes, it is noisy stat, but as always Paul fans blame teammates. He was Clippers general/leader, but

Paul in 4Q

G3 Q4 0-1 0pts 1ast -7
G4 Q4 0-2 1pts 1ast -12
G5 Q4 2-6 4pts 1ast -2
G6 Q4 2-2 6pts 1ast 0

Paul disappeared in 4Q's and he was the best player on the floor. Where was his leadership? Avg 3pts and 1ast on .364fg in 4Q...
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#6 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Aug 8, 2022 11:08 am

Chris Paul was by far the best player of all those guys in 2013. Memphis murdered the Clippers bigs, the Clippers bigs were pretty raw at the time, DeAndre Jordan was not that good yet.


Spree trying to use that bro logic. Hey guy, you know the Clippers beat the Warriors the very next year right - since context does not matter, then doesn't that mean CP3 was better than Curry?


Memphis eliminated OKC in the first round and Westbrook was injured so we could not see what would have happened. Lakers were swept and again, Bryant didn't play in his series. The Rockets lost 4-2 in the first round as well.

This just seems like an obvious agenda thread to put Curry over. Notice how he cites who is the 1st option and 2nd option likely as a preemptive way to say "Parker can't be ranked above Curry even though he beat him because he was the 2nd option".

Which while on the topic, Parker was the lead scorer on the Spurs and took roughly the same amount of field goals as Tim Duncan. He was not the "second option" on his team, I'm not sure how you pulled up those stats in the TS and somehow missed that.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#7 » by Dutchball97 » Mon Aug 8, 2022 11:54 am

SpreeS wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Paul and adv stats look always perfect but what about PO? After 2-0, loosing 2-4 not good sign

Paul in -11.2 netrtg
Paul out +11.39 netrtg

for example Curry

in +3.79 netrtg
out -18.65 netrtg


on/off stats are noisy over a whole season, let alone a 6 game sample size. Even then look at the Clippers in the play-offs and see if you still think it's all Chris Paul's fault they lost to the Grizzlies. The top 5 in gamescore in the series is CP3 at #1 and then 4 Grizzlies. Blake Griffin had a bad series and DeAndre Jordan completely disappeared altogether. This is a big reason why this +- focused trend on this board is completely missing any form of context.


yes, it is noisy stat, but as always Paul fans blame teammates. He was Clippers general/leader, but

Paul in 4Q

G3 Q4 0-1 0pts 1ast -7
G4 Q4 0-2 1pts 1ast -12
G5 Q4 2-6 4pts 1ast -2
G6 Q4 2-2 6pts 1ast 0

Paul disappeared in 4Q's and he was the best player on the floor. Where was his leadership? Avg 3pts and 1ast on .364fg in 4Q...


"Paul fans", because everyone who thinks CP3 is the best of the bunch only believes so because he is their favorite? So you admit you're only hyping up Curry here because you have a crush on him instead of because there are actual legit arguments in favor of him? Great to know.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#8 » by SpreeS » Mon Aug 8, 2022 1:07 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
on/off stats are noisy over a whole season, let alone a 6 game sample size. Even then look at the Clippers in the play-offs and see if you still think it's all Chris Paul's fault they lost to the Grizzlies. The top 5 in gamescore in the series is CP3 at #1 and then 4 Grizzlies. Blake Griffin had a bad series and DeAndre Jordan completely disappeared altogether. This is a big reason why this +- focused trend on this board is completely missing any form of context.


yes, it is noisy stat, but as always Paul fans blame teammates. He was Clippers general/leader, but

Paul in 4Q

G3 Q4 0-1 0pts 1ast -7
G4 Q4 0-2 1pts 1ast -12
G5 Q4 2-6 4pts 1ast -2
G6 Q4 2-2 6pts 1ast 0

Paul disappeared in 4Q's and he was the best player on the floor. Where was his leadership? Avg 3pts and 1ast on .364fg in 4Q...


"Paul fans", because everyone who thinks CP3 is the best of the bunch only believes so because he is their favorite? So you admit you're only hyping up Curry here because you have a crush on him instead of because there are actual legit arguments in favor of him? Great to know.


Its not about Curry. You wrote that Paul is clearly the best, b/c of adv stats (BPM/Lebron/PI RAMP). Paul has better career's adv stats than Magic and we all know that Paul&adv stats fit very well. Also we have Paul's 17y PO history and something doesn't match here. So argument that Paul is the best player b/c of adv stats doesnt work for me.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#9 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 8, 2022 1:16 pm

SpreeS wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
yes, it is noisy stat, but as always Paul fans blame teammates. He was Clippers general/leader, but

Paul in 4Q

G3 Q4 0-1 0pts 1ast -7
G4 Q4 0-2 1pts 1ast -12
G5 Q4 2-6 4pts 1ast -2
G6 Q4 2-2 6pts 1ast 0

Paul disappeared in 4Q's and he was the best player on the floor. Where was his leadership? Avg 3pts and 1ast on .364fg in 4Q...


"Paul fans", because everyone who thinks CP3 is the best of the bunch only believes so because he is their favorite? So you admit you're only hyping up Curry here because you have a crush on him instead of because there are actual legit arguments in favor of him? Great to know.


Its not about Curry. You wrote that Paul is clearly the best, b/c of adv stats (BPM/Lebron/PI RAMP). Paul has better career's adv stats than Magic and we all know that Paul&adv stats fit very well. Also we have Paul's 17y PO history and something doesn't match here. So argument that Paul is the best player b/c of adv stats doesnt work for me.


I'd argue if Paul was to stay healthy in all his post-seasons and had the same teammate luck as Magic then he would be ranked as good or better than Magic all-time.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#10 » by SpreeS » Mon Aug 8, 2022 1:21 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Chris Paul was by far the best player of all those guys in 2013. Memphis murdered the Clippers bigs, the Clippers bigs were pretty raw at the time, DeAndre Jordan was not that good yet.


Spree trying to use that bro logic. Hey guy, you know the Clippers beat the Warriors the very next year right - since context does not matter, then doesn't that mean CP3 was better than Curry?


Memphis eliminated OKC in the first round and Westbrook was injured so we could not see what would have happened. Lakers were swept and again, Bryant didn't play in his series. The Rockets lost 4-2 in the first round as well.

This just seems like an obvious agenda thread to put Curry over. Notice how he cites who is the 1st option and 2nd option likely as a preemptive way to say "Parker can't be ranked above Curry even though he beat him because he was the 2nd option".

Which while on the topic, Parker was the lead scorer on the Spurs and took roughly the same amount of field goals as Tim Duncan. He was not the "second option" on his team, I'm not sure how you pulled up those stats in the TS and somehow missed that.


Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#11 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 8, 2022 1:40 pm

SpreeS wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Chris Paul was by far the best player of all those guys in 2013. Memphis murdered the Clippers bigs, the Clippers bigs were pretty raw at the time, DeAndre Jordan was not that good yet.


Spree trying to use that bro logic. Hey guy, you know the Clippers beat the Warriors the very next year right - since context does not matter, then doesn't that mean CP3 was better than Curry?


Memphis eliminated OKC in the first round and Westbrook was injured so we could not see what would have happened. Lakers were swept and again, Bryant didn't play in his series. The Rockets lost 4-2 in the first round as well.

This just seems like an obvious agenda thread to put Curry over. Notice how he cites who is the 1st option and 2nd option likely as a preemptive way to say "Parker can't be ranked above Curry even though he beat him because he was the 2nd option".

Which while on the topic, Parker was the lead scorer on the Spurs and took roughly the same amount of field goals as Tim Duncan. He was not the "second option" on his team, I'm not sure how you pulled up those stats in the TS and somehow missed that.


Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.


This is weird.

Tony Parker averaged more FGA in the clutch than Tim Duncan for RS and PS by a considerable amount. Tony Parker also had a larger USG% by a considerable amount in the RS and higher in the PS.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#12 » by Dutchball97 » Mon Aug 8, 2022 1:55 pm

SpreeS wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
yes, it is noisy stat, but as always Paul fans blame teammates. He was Clippers general/leader, but

Paul in 4Q

G3 Q4 0-1 0pts 1ast -7
G4 Q4 0-2 1pts 1ast -12
G5 Q4 2-6 4pts 1ast -2
G6 Q4 2-2 6pts 1ast 0

Paul disappeared in 4Q's and he was the best player on the floor. Where was his leadership? Avg 3pts and 1ast on .364fg in 4Q...


"Paul fans", because everyone who thinks CP3 is the best of the bunch only believes so because he is their favorite? So you admit you're only hyping up Curry here because you have a crush on him instead of because there are actual legit arguments in favor of him? Great to know.


Its not about Curry. You wrote that Paul is clearly the best, b/c of adv stats (BPM/Lebron/PI RAMP). Paul has better career's adv stats than Magic and we all know that Paul&adv stats fit very well. Also we have Paul's 17y PO history and something doesn't match here. So argument that Paul is the best player b/c of adv stats doesnt work for me.


I don't really care if that argument doesn't do the trick for you, that's on you.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#13 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Aug 8, 2022 2:35 pm

SpreeS wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Chris Paul was by far the best player of all those guys in 2013. Memphis murdered the Clippers bigs, the Clippers bigs were pretty raw at the time, DeAndre Jordan was not that good yet.


Spree trying to use that bro logic. Hey guy, you know the Clippers beat the Warriors the very next year right - since context does not matter, then doesn't that mean CP3 was better than Curry?


Memphis eliminated OKC in the first round and Westbrook was injured so we could not see what would have happened. Lakers were swept and again, Bryant didn't play in his series. The Rockets lost 4-2 in the first round as well.

This just seems like an obvious agenda thread to put Curry over. Notice how he cites who is the 1st option and 2nd option likely as a preemptive way to say "Parker can't be ranked above Curry even though he beat him because he was the 2nd option".

Which while on the topic, Parker was the lead scorer on the Spurs and took roughly the same amount of field goals as Tim Duncan. He was not the "second option" on his team, I'm not sure how you pulled up those stats in the TS and somehow missed that.


Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.


Green was the second best player but he wasn’t the second option lmfao that was klay
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#14 » by SpreeS » Mon Aug 8, 2022 2:48 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Chris Paul was by far the best player of all those guys in 2013. Memphis murdered the Clippers bigs, the Clippers bigs were pretty raw at the time, DeAndre Jordan was not that good yet.


Spree trying to use that bro logic. Hey guy, you know the Clippers beat the Warriors the very next year right - since context does not matter, then doesn't that mean CP3 was better than Curry?


Memphis eliminated OKC in the first round and Westbrook was injured so we could not see what would have happened. Lakers were swept and again, Bryant didn't play in his series. The Rockets lost 4-2 in the first round as well.

This just seems like an obvious agenda thread to put Curry over. Notice how he cites who is the 1st option and 2nd option likely as a preemptive way to say "Parker can't be ranked above Curry even though he beat him because he was the 2nd option".

Which while on the topic, Parker was the lead scorer on the Spurs and took roughly the same amount of field goals as Tim Duncan. He was not the "second option" on his team, I'm not sure how you pulled up those stats in the TS and somehow missed that.


Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.


Green was the second best player but he wasn’t the second option lmfao that was klay


So playmaking and defence can’t have options only shooting…..
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#15 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Aug 8, 2022 3:10 pm

SpreeS wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.


Green was the second best player but he wasn’t the second option lmfao that was klay


So playmaking and defence can’t have options only shooting…..





It's actually incredible you've had an account on here for 10 years and do not know basic basketball terminology. What relevance does elite defense have to do with whether you are a 1st or 2nd option? Those are offensive terms.

You can read the bold out loud and that makes sense to you?
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#16 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 8, 2022 3:11 pm

SpreeS wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.


Green was the second best player but he wasn’t the second option lmfao that was klay


So playmaking and defence can’t have options only shooting…..


That is correct. Typically the term "First Option" and "Second Option" refer to a team's offensive identity and who specifically generates the points.

I see this thread has turned into a semantics game rather than actual analysis and comparison...I wonder why? :D
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#17 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 8, 2022 3:13 pm

Was Rudy Gobert the clear first option offensively for Utah over Donovan Mitchell?

What about Mutombo when next to Allen Iverson?
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#18 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Aug 8, 2022 3:34 pm

Colbinii wrote:Was Rudy Gobert the clear first option offensively for Utah over Donovan Mitchell?

What about Mutombo when next to Allen Iverson?


Bill Russell was the goat #1 option.
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#19 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Aug 8, 2022 10:36 pm

SpreeS wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Lead scorer isnt 1st option. Its more about importance. Do you want to say that Klay was 2nd option on Warriors in 15/16 seasons? Green was 2nd option and everybody knows it.


Green was the second best player but he wasn’t the second option lmfao that was klay


So playmaking and defence can’t have options only shooting…..


Tf lol
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Re: TOP guards rank in 2013 season 

Post#20 » by falcolombardi » Mon Aug 8, 2022 10:43 pm

You could argue green was the second most important offensive player in the 15-16 warriors

But first or second option usually is used to talk about scoring

There are interesting cases where the best and most important offensive player is not the one taking the most shots but those are usually the exception rather thsn the norm

67 sixers, lebron/kyrie cavs, maybe some nash teams come to mind without looking it up

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