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Oh I like this question a lot.

Need to think about it more, but I'm leaning Steph

Fantastic question. I lean Green slightly.

Interesting question. I lean Steph.

I’ll give Curry the benefit of the doubt, but Draymond’s d makes me hesitant.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's Draymond.

Steph already incredible offensively, but I think too raw to consistently beat disciplined playoff defenses.

Peak Green brought a lot to the table but its Steph for me. This was the year I felt Curry started leaning into being a high volume 3pt shooter.

well Curry was already a pain in the ass (maybe Lillard level?) and I remember the series against SA (even though he was less efficient than I remembered). He was Golden State during this time, more than ever.
2016 Draymond was amazing but it still takes a lot of effort to picture him in other contexts and making a guess about results.
16 Draymond is supposed to be closer to 2016 Curry impactwise. It's a harsh comparison to do. I won't vote

2013 Curry beat Andre Iguodalas 57 win Nuggets team and then lost to the Duncan, Kawhi, Manu and Parker in 6 games.

2016 Green is still just a nut smashing system player riding the coattails of Curry.

Without the ball Draymond is a complete non threat on offense. He needs the ball in his hands. Even further, he needs guys that can play off the ball since he can't create his own shot or put the ball on the floor when there is any kind of pressure. There is no star in the league that would allow Draymond to dominate the ball like he does other than Curry. He's still a great defender and rebounder, but this is why he's the Tim Tebow of PF's.

The only way you can pick Green is under the condition that he still gets to play with peak Curry.

Meanwhile Curry is going to be just as if not more effective with other players and systems.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:2013 Curry beat Andre Iguodalas 57 win Nuggets team and then lost to the Duncan, Kawhi, Manu and Parker in 6 games.

2016 Green is still just a nut smashing system player riding the coattails of Curry.

Without the ball Draymond is a complete non threat on offense. He needs the ball in his hands. Even further, he needs guys that can play off the ball since he can't create his own shot or put the ball on the floor when there is any kind of pressure. There is no star in the league that would allow Draymond to dominate the ball like he does other than Curry. He's still a great defender and rebounder, but this is why he's the Tim Tebow of PF's.

The only way you can pick Green is under the condition that he still gets to play with peak Curry.

Meanwhile Curry is going to be just as if not more effective with other players and systems.

Best defender in the league, great point forward, shot >38% from 3 in '16

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:2013 Curry beat Andre Iguodalas 57 win Nuggets team and then lost to the Duncan, Kawhi, Manu and Parker in 6 games.

2016 Green is still just a nut smashing system player riding the coattails of Curry.

Without the ball Draymond is a complete non threat on offense. He needs the ball in his hands. Even further, he needs guys that can play off the ball since he can't create his own shot or put the ball on the floor when there is any kind of pressure. There is no star in the league that would allow Draymond to dominate the ball like he does other than Curry. He's still a great defender and rebounder, but this is why he's the Tim Tebow of PF's.

The only way you can pick Green is under the condition that he still gets to play with peak Curry.

Meanwhile Curry is going to be just as if not more effective with other players and systems.

Best defender in the league, great point forward, shot >38% from 3 in '16

That's where just looking at stats gets you in trouble.

Draymond was taking WIDE open 3's from the top of the arc, and he's making passes while being left open to Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson are doing work off the ball.

Just look at the 2022 NBA Finals. Boston decided to actually defend Green and they rendered him useless. Curry was then allowed to go 1v1 instead of facing double/triple teams and he was dropping 40+ on the DPOY. That's why teams usually just leave Green open.

He is a great defender, but he's a role player that's dependent on unique superstars.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:2013 Curry beat Andre Iguodalas 57 win Nuggets team and then lost to the Duncan, Kawhi, Manu and Parker in 6 games.

2016 Green is still just a nut smashing system player riding the coattails of Curry.

Without the ball Draymond is a complete non threat on offense. He needs the ball in his hands. Even further, he needs guys that can play off the ball since he can't create his own shot or put the ball on the floor when there is any kind of pressure. There is no star in the league that would allow Draymond to dominate the ball like he does other than Curry. He's still a great defender and rebounder, but this is why he's the Tim Tebow of PF's.

The only way you can pick Green is under the condition that he still gets to play with peak Curry.

Meanwhile Curry is going to be just as if not more effective with other players and systems.

Best defender in the league, great point forward, shot >38% from 3 in '16

That's where just looking at stats gets you in trouble.

Draymond was taking WIDE open 3's from the top of the arc, and he's making passes while being left open to Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson are doing work off the ball.

Just look at the 2022 NBA Finals. Boston decided to actually defend Green and they rendered him useless. Curry was then allowed to go 1v1 instead of facing double/triple teams and he was dropping 40+ on the DPOY. That's why teams usually just leave Green open.

He is a great defender, but he's a role player that's dependent on unique superstars.

We both know Draymond offensively in '16 looked a lot different than Draymond offensively in '22

I don't see any reason Draymond couldn't be successful (not as successful as GSW but still successful) in any offense with a high level PNR playmaker

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:


Best defender in the league, great point forward, shot >38% from 3 in '16

That's where just looking at stats gets you in trouble.

Draymond was taking WIDE open 3's from the top of the arc, and he's making passes while being left open to Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson are doing work off the ball.

Just look at the 2022 NBA Finals. Boston decided to actually defend Green and they rendered him useless. Curry was then allowed to go 1v1 instead of facing double/triple teams and he was dropping 40+ on the DPOY. That's why teams usually just leave Green open.

He is a great defender, but he's a role player that's dependent on unique superstars.

We both know Draymond offensively in '16 looked a lot different than Draymond offensively in '22

I don't see any reason Draymond couldn't be successful (not as successful as GSW but still successful) in any offense with a high level PNR playmaker

Looks a lot different? No. He has poor body/ball control when he tries to make plays, which is why he can't pass off the dribble or finish around the rim. He can't handle defensive pressure and he struggles when he puts the ball on the floor, unless he's allowed to go in a straight line. That's always been Draymond Green.

In 2016 he was just hitting more of his open shots, open shots that he wouldn't get in any other system. He's allowed to just stand at the top of the arc and hold the ball while being left open, and it's effective because Curry and Klay are amazing off the ball. The problem is that Curry and Klay have to put in an insane amount of work to make Green effective, something that no other superstars are going to do for Dryamond.

Also, the Warriors aren't running PnR with Green. He did less than twice per game in 2016 and the Warriors are always at the bottom of the league in PnR. I wish they would, but Green is such a non-threat that it's hard to spam teams with him in the PnR.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
That's where just looking at stats gets you in trouble.

Draymond was taking WIDE open 3's from the top of the arc, and he's making passes while being left open to Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson are doing work off the ball.

Just look at the 2022 NBA Finals. Boston decided to actually defend Green and they rendered him useless. Curry was then allowed to go 1v1 instead of facing double/triple teams and he was dropping 40+ on the DPOY. That's why teams usually just leave Green open.

He is a great defender, but he's a role player that's dependent on unique superstars.

We both know Draymond offensively in '16 looked a lot different than Draymond offensively in '22

I don't see any reason Draymond couldn't be successful (not as successful as GSW but still successful) in any offense with a high level PNR playmaker

Looks a lot different? No. He has poor body/ball control when he tries to make plays, which is why he can't pass off the dribble or finish around the rim. He can't handle defensive pressure and he struggles when he puts the ball on the floor, unless he's allowed to go in a straight line. That's always been Draymond Green.

In 2016 he was just hitting more of his open shots, open shots that he wouldn't get in any other system. He's allowed to just stand at the top of the arc and hold the ball while being left open, and it's effective because Curry and Klay are amazing off the ball. The problem is that Curry and Klay have to put in an insane amount of work to make Green effective, something that no other superstars are going to do for Dryamond.

Also, the Warriors aren't running PnR with Green. He did less than twice per game in 2016 and the Warriors are always at the bottom of the league in PnR. I wish they would, but Green is such a non-threat that it's hard to spam teams with him in the PnR.

I'm not talking about the first three quarters motion and split cuts. 4th quarter Warriors go to Steph/Dray PNR because he's 1) a fantastic screener and 2) one of the best decision makers in the short roll

There's no reason he can't do that on another team that has a high level off the dribble scoring threat

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:
We both know Draymond offensively in '16 looked a lot different than Draymond offensively in '22

I don't see any reason Draymond couldn't be successful (not as successful as GSW but still successful) in any offense with a high level PNR playmaker

Looks a lot different? No. He has poor body/ball control when he tries to make plays, which is why he can't pass off the dribble or finish around the rim. He can't handle defensive pressure and he struggles when he puts the ball on the floor, unless he's allowed to go in a straight line. That's always been Draymond Green.

In 2016 he was just hitting more of his open shots, open shots that he wouldn't get in any other system. He's allowed to just stand at the top of the arc and hold the ball while being left open, and it's effective because Curry and Klay are amazing off the ball. The problem is that Curry and Klay have to put in an insane amount of work to make Green effective, something that no other superstars are going to do for Dryamond.

Also, the Warriors aren't running PnR with Green. He did less than twice per game in 2016 and the Warriors are always at the bottom of the league in PnR. I wish they would, but Green is such a non-threat that it's hard to spam teams with him in the PnR.

I'm not talking about the first three quarters motion and split cuts. 4th quarter Warriors go to Steph/Dray PNR because he's 1) a fantastic screener and 2) one of the best decision makers in the short roll

There's no reason he can't do that on another team that has a high level off the dribble scoring threat

They did it less than twice a game in 2016, which was less frequently than Speights and Ezeli. As the roll man in 2016 only Mason Plumlee and Nerlens Noel turned the ball over at a higher rate (40+ games, 1.9+ possessions per game). The guy can't handle the heat on offense.

Draymond can be effective because Curry takes all the defense with him, something that's not happening on another team.

In 2016 Curry, Thompson & Barnes were 3 of the 6 players that moved at 4.90 MPH+ on offense while playing 30+ MPG. Curry was #1 at 5.07 MPH. That list is full of role players and injury riddled stars like Otto Porter, Kawhi Leonard and Victo Oloadipo.

Stars like LeBron, KD, Harden, CP3 etc. are at the bottom of the league in speed and movement. STARS DON'T WORK HARD ON OFFENSE. Curry is the exception because has has to work hard in order to make Green effective. Green isn't getting that anywhere else.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
Looks a lot different? No. He has poor body/ball control when he tries to make plays, which is why he can't pass off the dribble or finish around the rim. He can't handle defensive pressure and he struggles when he puts the ball on the floor, unless he's allowed to go in a straight line. That's always been Draymond Green.

In 2016 he was just hitting more of his open shots, open shots that he wouldn't get in any other system. He's allowed to just stand at the top of the arc and hold the ball while being left open, and it's effective because Curry and Klay are amazing off the ball. The problem is that Curry and Klay have to put in an insane amount of work to make Green effective, something that no other superstars are going to do for Dryamond.

Also, the Warriors aren't running PnR with Green. He did less than twice per game in 2016 and the Warriors are always at the bottom of the league in PnR. I wish they would, but Green is such a non-threat that it's hard to spam teams with him in the PnR.

I'm not talking about the first three quarters motion and split cuts. 4th quarter Warriors go to Steph/Dray PNR because he's 1) a fantastic screener and 2) one of the best decision makers in the short roll

There's no reason he can't do that on another team that has a high level off the dribble scoring threat

They did it less than twice a game in 2016, which was less frequently than Speights and Ezeli. As the roll man in 2016 only Mason Plumlee and Nerlens Noel turned the ball over at a higher rate (40+ games, 1.9+ possessions per game). The guy can't handle the heat on offense.

Draymond can be effective because Curry takes all the defense with him, something that's not happening on another team.

In 2016 Curry, Thompson & Barnes were 3 of the 6 players that moved at 4.90 MPH+ on offense while playing 30+ MPG. Curry was #1 at 5.07 MPH. That list is full of role players and injury riddled stars like Otto Porter, Kawhi Leonard and Victo Oloadipo.

Stars like LeBron, KD, Harden, CP3 etc. are at the bottom of the league in speed and movement. STARS DON'T WORK HARD ON OFFENSE. Curry is the exception because has has to work hard in order to make Green effective. Green isn't getting that anywhere else.

You disagree that the Kerr-era Warriors crunch time offense - particularly when they went to the "death lineup" or comparable Dray at center units - was and has always been heavily built on Steph/Draymond PNR?

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:
I'm not talking about the first three quarters motion and split cuts. 4th quarter Warriors go to Steph/Dray PNR because he's 1) a fantastic screener and 2) one of the best decision makers in the short roll

There's no reason he can't do that on another team that has a high level off the dribble scoring threat

They did it less than twice a game in 2016, which was less frequently than Speights and Ezeli. As the roll man in 2016 only Mason Plumlee and Nerlens Noel turned the ball over at a higher rate (40+ games, 1.9+ possessions per game). The guy can't handle the heat on offense.

Draymond can be effective because Curry takes all the defense with him, something that's not happening on another team.

In 2016 Curry, Thompson & Barnes were 3 of the 6 players that moved at 4.90 MPH+ on offense while playing 30+ MPG. Curry was #1 at 5.07 MPH. That list is full of role players and injury riddled stars like Otto Porter, Kawhi Leonard and Victo Oloadipo.

Stars like LeBron, KD, Harden, CP3 etc. are at the bottom of the league in speed and movement. STARS DON'T WORK HARD ON OFFENSE. Curry is the exception because has has to work hard in order to make Green effective. Green isn't getting that anywhere else.

You disagree that the Kerr-era Warriors crunch time offense - particularly when they went to the "death lineup" or comparable Dray at center units - was and has always been heavily built on Steph/Draymond PNR?

It was heavily built around Curry, and Draymond was put in favorable passing and shooting situations because of it. Curry was the threat, Curry carried the load, Curry did the work. It allowed Draymond to be effective. That's what I'm saying.

No other superstar is going to allow him to have the ball while the superstar does all the work off the ball. It just isn't happening.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

parsnips33 wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
They did it less than twice a game in 2016, which was less frequently than Speights and Ezeli. As the roll man in 2016 only Mason Plumlee and Nerlens Noel turned the ball over at a higher rate (40+ games, 1.9+ possessions per game). The guy can't handle the heat on offense.

Draymond can be effective because Curry takes all the defense with him, something that's not happening on another team.

In 2016 Curry, Thompson & Barnes were 3 of the 6 players that moved at 4.90 MPH+ on offense while playing 30+ MPG. Curry was #1 at 5.07 MPH. That list is full of role players and injury riddled stars like Otto Porter, Kawhi Leonard and Victo Oloadipo.

Stars like LeBron, KD, Harden, CP3 etc. are at the bottom of the league in speed and movement. STARS DON'T WORK HARD ON OFFENSE. Curry is the exception because has has to work hard in order to make Green effective. Green isn't getting that anywhere else.

You disagree that the Kerr-era Warriors crunch time offense - particularly when they went to the "death lineup" or comparable Dray at center units - was and has always been heavily built on Steph/Draymond PNR?

It was heavily built around Curry, and Draymond was put in favorable passing and shooting situations because of it. Curry was the threat, Curry carried the load, Curry did the work. It allowed Draymond to be effective. That's what I'm saying.

No other superstar is going to allow him to have the ball while the superstar does all the work off the ball. It just isn't happening.

I agree that Steph's unique off-ball skillset makes Draymond a much easier fit in Steve Kerr's offense. And obviously I agree that Steph is the driver of the offense and always has been.

But Draymond's most valuable role offensively has always been as the roll-man in PNR, which doesn't really require him to dominate the ball all that much

2016 Draymond was better than Curry start to finish that very season.

This is unquestionable to me. Draymond’s defense alone had more game tilt than 13 Curry.