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Was it Hakeem? We he ever actually the best offensive player in the league?

Others include Barkley Reggie Miller, Robinson John Stockton , Shaq, penny etc

Who was the best offensively when MJ was retired?

What about Mark Price?

Looking at Bballref OBPM for '94 and '95 regular season and playoffs, I think that Miller and Barkley look the best in those seasons. I have little clue for the context regarding the playoffs though.

Barkley and Miller are pretty clearly the 2 here, Stockton may have a better case than i give him credit for. Don't think Hakeem's overall offense was ever that good.

Max123 wrote:What about Mark Price?

Was he ever best in the league level?

Maybe David Robinson. He was really good those 2 years.

1993Playoffs wrote:Was it Hakeem? We he ever actually the best offensive player in the league?

Others include Barkley Reggie Miller, Robinson John Stockton , Shaq, penny etc

Who was the best offensively when MJ was retired?

I can't think of a year where Olajuwon was the best offensive player in the league. But his blend of offense, particularly in the playoffs, coupled to his defense gives him an argument as best player in a few seasons, for sure. And he has a few seasons where you can argue over his defensive ranking, too.

Very interesting question since Jordans scoring prowess made it obvious who the best offensive player was when we was around. I honestly dont know who was but I feel Hakeem has as good a case as anybody.

capfan33 wrote:Barkley and Miller are pretty clearly the 2 here, Stockton may have a better case than i give him credit for. Don't think Hakeem's overall offense was ever that good.

I mean is Reggie's offense really better than what Hakeem did in winning a championship? A 33 ppg, 4.5 apg playoff run with his inside play generating tons of open 3's. Can't see Reggie putting together that volume of both scoring and creation (especially considering centers lose out to a lot of hockey assists), even if he has a TS% advantage.

If Hakeem had Reggie Miller level offensive impact on top of being the league’s best defensive player (or close to it in 1995), may as well give him the #1 overall peak lol. Not saying it is wrong, and I kind-of like the concept, but that is basically what you are arguing.

Price is a good shout for 1994; I would take him as the top point guard, with no disrespect to KJ, for how much more he could open up the court for his teammates. Including the postseason, though, I probably side with Reggie.

In 1995 (and 1996), give me Penny.

1993Playoffs wrote:

Max123 wrote:What about Mark Price?

Was he ever best in the league level?

You could argue price, especially if you really are a believer in high-level playmaking. For me personally, I think his size perhaps allowed him to be swallowed up a bit easier in the PS compared to some other guys with an argument;

I would put Miller, Barkley, and Shaq ahead offensively, and depending on what you think of Hakeem's PS rise, he might have an argument.

I haven't seen anyone say it yet, so I will. But along with Penny, I also think Shaq has an argument here.

LukaTheGOAT wrote:I also think Shaq has an argument here.

Was wondering how long it would be before someone mentioned him.

SHAQ32 wrote:

LukaTheGOAT wrote:I also think Shaq has an argument here.

Was wondering how long it would be before someone mentioned him.

The Magic's offense had a 5.2 point jump in relative offensive rating from the previous season when ROOKIE Shaq joined the team. 94 and especially 95 Shaq is well ahead of that.

AEnigma wrote:If Hakeem had Reggie Miller level offensive impact on top of being the league’s best defensive player (or close to it in 1995), may as well give him the #1 overall peak lol. Not saying it is wrong, and I kind-of like the concept, but that is basically what you are arguing.

Price is a good shout for 1994; I would take him as the top point guard, with no disrespect to KJ, for how much more he could open up the court for his teammates. Including the postseason, though, I probably side with Reggie.

In 1995 (and 1996), give me Penny.

Well i would say 1995 Hakeem was a decent defensive step back from even his 1994 level, much less his absolute peak. So whether being ahead of Reggie Miller on offense in 1995 would make it the #1 peak, I wouldn't say so. Though it's obviously a ridiculously high peak. Maybe I'm just not as high on Reggie. Reggie looks great from impact metrics i'm sure, but i just don't see him going bananas like Hakeem in 1995. And it's not like the Rockets were just humming along and then Hakeem decided to up his volume for no reason and to no avail. The offense was much better in the postseason than the regular season and it won a championship against the toughest gauntlet ever, mostly because it "out-offensed" 4 other top 5 offenses. Hakeem basically was the offense, for as many possessions as he could physically handle a game, and produced amazing results. Watching 1998 Reggie Miller lose Game 7 to the Bulls because he could barely even get open to get a shot off in the 4th makes me think he was always a slight level behind the true championship offensive #1 options, where volume can be just as important as efficiency.

May as well discredit 1993 Hakeem if a low scoring Game 7 is that damning.

AEnigma wrote:May as well discredit 1993 Hakeem if a low scoring Game 7 is that damning.

the point wasn't the scoring, it was the attempts. it was the biggest game of reggie's career and arguably stayed that way considering i don't think most people thought the 2000 pacers could beat the lakers. it was right there and he took 1 shot in the whole 4th quarter, with 35 year old michael jordan keeping him from basically even doing anything. i just don't see anyone capable of taking hakeem out like that.

in 1993, hakeem had 20 true shot attempts to reggie's 15 in 1998, and hakeem added 9 assists to reggie's 4. credit to reggie for being overall efficient, but hakeem being an on-ball monster just seems to add more overall value and resilience.

even in 1995, reggie may have had a chance to face hakeem, but in game 7 against the magic, reggie had 13 shot attempts (no ft's) and 0 assists in 38 minutes. it just seems like taking reggie out of a game was more achievable. come hell or high water, hakeem was getting his shots up, often to great effect.

I suppose that is not unfair, but part of the point is that someone being given that much attention should be freeing up their teammates. Which it generally did, but they fell just a little short of taking full advantage.

1993Playoffs wrote:Was it Hakeem? We he ever actually the best offensive player in the league?

Others include Barkley Reggie Miller, Robinson John Stockton , Shaq, penny etc

Who was the best offensively when MJ was retired?

I did a yearly analysis for this recently and I believe I settled on Miller for '93-94 & Olajuwon for '94-95. The playoffs obviously played pretty heavily into my conclusions.

capfan33 wrote:Barkley and Miller are pretty clearly the 2 here, Stockton may have a better case than i give him credit for. Don't think Hakeem's overall offense was ever that good.

Thing about Barkley is, it's really not clear he was the best offensive player on his own team.

If you look at that '94-95 series between Houston & Phoenix, Olajuwon & KJ seemed pretty clearly the two most effective offensive players in the series, and had Barkley been more effective than he was, Phoenix wins.

It's a bit unfair to say that because of course Phoenix was having to decide about whether to focus on attacking through Barkley or KJ, and so it's not so much that Barkley failed to show up but that KJ took control.

Incidentally, I think KJ has an argument here, and had he led his team through the playoff gauntlet I think he'd be a pretty clear choice, but he didn't, and was injured a lot, so he doesn't feel appropriate to me as the pick.