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Looking at some metrics and raw numbers, he looks good, but I never hear much about it. You only hear about Bobby Jones and Mo Cheeks.

I’m not sure anyone really knows lol.

In New York he was more all over the court, jumped more for blocks (for bad and good), and seemed to have more impact (again, for good and bad). In Philly, he seemed more content to play within the scheme and not try to dominate on the defensive end, maybe because he had talented teammates who did excel on that end.

I think a lot of people are relatively low on his defense because he wasn't a shutdown man defender, but that's not the most important thing in basketball. Julius was an enormous shotblocker for his position, he was a legit rim protector despite being 6'7. He was also great at passing lanes as well. Sometimes, he gambled a bit too much and I think he peaked defensively around the early 1980s.

Dr J did some eye catching things defensively.

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Dr J did some eye catching things defensively.

Yes, he did!

Reporting is mixed. I'd otoh say the more year-to-year stuff I've seen tilts a bit negative otoh (suggesting gambler). Between that and generally somewhat (otoh) pedestrian net impact numbers in Philly (should probably look closer) I'd lean towards the negative at least in Philly.

Obviously he's box productive.

There's still significant margin for uncertainty, especially ABA (where I've got huge range and very little idea) and on-off should be scrutinized more closely. But otoh, if you don't have him as poor offensively, on-off seems to suggest there's not a lot of room for him to be (typically) good on D in Philly (perhaps limited space for even neutral, again if O is really good) unless he's a victim of unusual circumstance (e.g. B Jones is incredible and he [and starter Cheeks?] is spending a low proportion of his "on" time with Erving and that's really hurting him).

Hes a bit average from what I seen.

From my recollection, he struck me as an average man defender and an above average (but not quite elite) off-ball defender. As a man defender, he wasn't recognized at the time for having particularly good basic technique. He relied more on his elite athleticism to make up for any deficiencies in technique; sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, which is why I split the difference and view him as average. Off-ball, he had fairly good anticipation of passes and was above average in steals and making blindside blocks. He was voted as All Defensive First Team member in 76 (the ABA only had a first team - no second team). Not sure if that was a justified selection or not; outside of Bobby Jones (the other forward on the All Defensive team) I can't think of another choice who was clearly better that year. Which could be more attributable to the smaller available population rather than Erving's defensiveness greatness.

He was voted as All Defensive First Team member in 76 (the ABA only had a first team - no second team). Not sure if that was a justified selection or not.

The New York Nets were the ABA's best defensive team in 1975-76, allowed just 100.9 pts/100poss. Erving alone played 1/6 of the team's total minutes played.

Here's the minutes distribution on that team that year:

min -- player
3244 -- 6-6 Julius Erving
2427 -- 6-8 Rich Jones
2255 -- 6-2 John Williamson
2162 -- 6-11 Kim Hughes
2082 -- 6-3 Al Skinner
1790 -- 6-8 Tim Bassett
1733 -- 6-2 Brian Taylor

No one else on the team played even 1200 minutes.

Erving had 207 steals and 160 blocked shots, playing primarily SF. The only other NBA/ABA player to get 200+ steals and 160+ blocked shots in a season was Olajuwon (1988-89). The only other player to get 200+ steals and 120+ blocked shots in a season was Michael Jordan (who did so twice, 1986-87 and 1987-88).

Bassett and Jones were the Nets PFs that year (Jones also played SF, Bassett also C), Hughes and Swen Nater were the Cs. Erving was also 7th in the league in defensive rebounds with 588, at 6-6. No other player in the ABA less than 6-9 had even 430. And those 588 defensive rebounds were 150+ more than what any other Nets player grabbed.

Needless to say he made a ton of plays defensively.

I watched one of his nets games a bit ago and remember him making athletic chasedown blocks/contests and gambling for steals (to his record his attempts worked out well in that game)

Dont remember him standing out for good or for bad as a man defender

For small forwards in the top 20 all time he is probably at the top.

JordansBulls wrote:For small forwards in the top 20 all time he is probably at the top.

Doubt he was better than peak defense lebron or kawhi (if you got him top 20)

falcolombardi wrote:

JordansBulls wrote:For small forwards in the top 20 all time he is probably at the top.

Doubt he was better than peak defense lebron or kawhi (if you got him top 20)

We have Dr. J’s on/off numbers from 1977 onwards.

1977: defense .2 points per 100 possessions better with Erving on court
1978: defense .5 points per 100 possessions worse with Erving on court
1979: defense .7 points per 100 possessions worse with Erving on court
1980: defense 2.0 points per 100 possessions better with Erving on court
1981: defense 6.2 points per 100 possessions worse with Erving on court
1982: defense .8 points per 100 possessions better with Erving on court
1983: defense 3.1 points per 100 possessions better with Erving on court
1984: defense 2.6 points per 100 possessions worse with Erving on court
1985: defense 1.9 points per 100 possessions worse with Erving on court

He was a slightly positive defender most likely and almost certainly not “the best of the top 20 small forward” (though we know why that comment was made).

In his athletic peime/peak, he blocked shots, and had some gods steals, but overall was probably a slightly above average defender for most of his career.

SHAQ32 wrote:Looking at some metrics and raw numbers, he looks good, but I never hear much about it. You only hear about Bobby Jones and Mo Cheeks.

That’s because these two were on an entirely different tier defensively. Bobby Jones…nothing more needs to be said, and Mo cheeks was probably one of the best small man defenders in NBA history.