RealGM

Has a rookie other than Magic played 20 minutes per game in both the regular season and finals on a championship team?
Magic, sort of Johny Davis on the 1977 Blazers.
Havilicek 14 minutes per game regular season, 18 minutes per game finals.
Andrew Toney would have been one if his team had won game 7 vs the 1981 Celtics. 76ers would have beaten the Rockets.

Bill Russell. Tom Heinsohn.

Bill russel

Also, Some close calls with sophomores

Kareem
Bird
Robert horry
Duncan

Sam Cassell? Played 23 mpg scoring 12% of Houston's points on 62% TS in the 1994 Finals, was particularly crucial because starting PG Kenny Smith was pretty bad in what was an extremely competitive defensive series where efficient scoring was at an all-time premium. Notably Cassell scored 15 of Houston's 93 points on 92% TS in their 4 point Gm3 win, also scored 13 of their 90 points on 84% TS in Houston's 6 point Gm7 win. Ultimately I think it's fair to say that rookie Sam Cassell's performance could've very easily tilted the series outcome

Manu Ginobili

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:Sam Cassell? Played 23 mpg scoring 12% of Houston's points on 62% TS in the 1994 Finals, was particularly crucial because starting PG Kenny Smith was pretty bad in what was an extremely competitive defensive series where efficient scoring was at an all-time premium. Notably Cassell scored 15 of Houston's 93 points on 92% TS in their 4 point Gm3 win, also scored 13 of their 90 points on 84% TS in Houston's 6 point Gm7 win. Ultimately I think it's fair to say that rookie Sam Cassell's performance could've very easily tilted the series outcome

Good one. cassell qualifies.

Colbinii wrote:Manu Ginobili

Yes Manu, except was he ever a rookie. 25 years old.

Jamaal Wilkes on the Warriors?

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Manu Ginobili

Yes Manu, except was he ever a rookie. 25 years old.

Yeah, he was a rookie. It was his first year in the NBA.

Yinwest wrote:Jamaal Wilkes on the Warriors?

Yes big impact.

OK, rookies playing big roles on s happens, but not often.

falcolombardi wrote:Bill russel

Also, Some close calls with sophomores

Kareem
Bird
Robert horry
Duncan

Celtics had the ROY and MVP as well and Russell was gone 1/3 of the season.

JordansBulls wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:Bill russel

Also, Some close calls with sophomores

Kareem
Bird
Robert horry
Duncan

Celtics had the ROY and MVP as well and Russell was gone 1/3 of the season.

So he didn't play a major role on a championship team?

Connie Hawkins on the Pittsburgh Pipers in 68.

George McGinnis on the 72 Pacers.

Larry Kenon on the 1974 Nets.

1950: Vern Mikkelsen, Slater Martin
1954: Clyde Lovelette
1956: Tom Gola
1957: Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn
1963: John Havlicek
1975: Jamaal Wilkes
1980: Magic Johnson
1983: Marc Iavaroni
2003: Manu Ginobili

This is everyone who played 20 MPG+ in both the regular season and play-offs as a rookie. Sanders in 61, McHale in 81, Rambis in 82 and Cassell in 94 were all close as well. Nowadays rookies barely play for championship teams and some don't even have rookies on their roster. With a bigger league it became harder for teams to turn it around right away, top teams also picked later and later decreasing the chance of an immediate impact player and contenders are more likely to trade their draft assets. Even Manu barely made the cut and he's an extreme outlier as a rookie. How many more Euroleague Finals MVPs, 2-time Italian league MVPs, world championship runner-up who made the all-tournament team and a total of 7 years of pro experience under their belt, entering the league at 25 years old are we going to see? Because that guy is the only one to accomplish this feat in the last 4 decades. We're very unlikely to ever get a rookie playing a significant role on a championship team again imo.

Dutchball97 wrote:1950: Vern Mikkelsen, Slater Martin
1954: Clyde Lovelette
1956: Tom Gola
1957: Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn
1963: John Havlicek
1975: Jamaal Wilkes
1980: Magic Johnson
1983: Marc Iavaroni
2003: Manu Ginobili

This is everyone who played 20 MPG+ in both the regular season and play-offs as a rookie. Sanders in 61, McHale in 81, Rambis in 82 and Cassell in 94 were all close as well. Nowadays rookies barely play for championship teams and some don't even have rookies on their roster. With a bigger league it became harder for teams to turn it around right away, top teams also picked later and later decreasing the chance of an immediate impact player and contenders are more likely to trade their draft assets. Even Manu barely made the cut and he's an extreme outlier as a rookie. How many more Euroleague Finals MVPs, 2-time Italian league MVPs, world championship runner-up who made the all-tournament team and a total of 7 years of pro experience under their belt, entering the league at 25 years old are we going to see? Because that guy is the only one to accomplish this feat in the last 4 decades. We're very unlikely to ever get a rookie playing a significant role on a championship team again imo.

Ever again? stranger things have happened.

It is harder for the championship teams to get a good rookie to contribute because of their draft picks, but they're not as far away from quality as you're implying. Good rookie is not the same thing as a good prospect.

Often times some of the best rookies, as in players who actually help their team win are going to be older players who are taken out of the lotto, not a top 3 pick which in these days are going to be 19 year old raw players. It's not inconceivable to land a decent roleplayer in the draft.

Mikan assuming you don't count his '46 Pro Tournament as his rookie year.
Won't just say anyone in first year of "Major League" era but Mikan was fresh out of college.

Vern Mikkelsen
Otoh I think Gola was a rookie on the early Warrior champs.
Wasn't Johnny Kerr a rookie on the Nats? Checked, yes he was.
Think Phil Smith was one with Wilkes ... smaller role (and bad playoffs I think) but part of a deep, competent ensemble behind the offensive "star".
McHale was the third forward but ... useful.

Okay bit of a search ... not necessarily major, inclusion boundary fairly arbitrary - trying to only say names I haven't already seen (so could err in either direction)
Iavaroni played big minutes, not necessarily well.
Billy Thompson
Kurt Rambis
Robin Jones
Counts
Sanders
Wilfong?
Lovellette
Skoog
Martin

Harder to easily figure out what counts as a rookie as you get nearer the start. Haven't searched NBL, ABL (Siegfried?), ABA.

I'd say yes they have has happened/is likely far less in modern era as gap between top and bottom expands in a larger league, great, rotation ready, low risk prospects (i.e. the type a good team will put in rotation) have to be passed over more in a larger league, rookies are younger and thus slightly less far along, picks have been maybe less traded and certainly protected in a way where you don't have the 80s Lakers adding Worthy at 1, or 76ers adding Barkley at 5 [edit: or Celtics number 1 which was then flipped for 3 [McHale] and Parish). Oh and any one pro is less likely to be a champion in a larger league (so leading to a percentage of the earlier player pool, though not a higher total).

HeartBreakKid wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:1950: Vern Mikkelsen, Slater Martin
1954: Clyde Lovelette
1956: Tom Gola
1957: Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn
1963: John Havlicek
1975: Jamaal Wilkes
1980: Magic Johnson
1983: Marc Iavaroni
2003: Manu Ginobili

This is everyone who played 20 MPG+ in both the regular season and play-offs as a rookie. Sanders in 61, McHale in 81, Rambis in 82 and Cassell in 94 were all close as well. Nowadays rookies barely play for championship teams and some don't even have rookies on their roster. With a bigger league it became harder for teams to turn it around right away, top teams also picked later and later decreasing the chance of an immediate impact player and contenders are more likely to trade their draft assets. Even Manu barely made the cut and he's an extreme outlier as a rookie. How many more Euroleague Finals MVPs, 2-time Italian league MVPs, world championship runner-up who made the all-tournament team and a total of 7 years of pro experience under their belt, entering the league at 25 years old are we going to see? Because that guy is the only one to accomplish this feat in the last 4 decades. We're very unlikely to ever get a rookie playing a significant role on a championship team again imo.

Ever again? stranger things have happened.

It is harder for the championship teams to get a good rookie to contribute because of their draft picks, but they're not as far away from quality as you're implying. Good rookie is not the same thing as a good prospect.

Often times some of the best rookies, as in players who actually help their team win are going to be older players who are taken out of the lotto, not a top 3 pick which in these days are going to be 19 year old raw players. It's not inconceivable to land a decent roleplayer in the draft.

There is a difference between a rookie who can contribute in a valuable manner right away and a rookie who plays over 20 minutes per game in both the regular season and play-offs. There have been a couple of rookies who did play a decent role since Manu but just not near those minute thresholds. Kuminga for example was definitely a contributing rookie last season but did not have a role comparable to Magic or even Manu.

Ever again might be a bit much to say yeah but it's at the very least highly unlikely for the forseeable future. With the talent pool continuing to grow we're seeing more late picks turn into star players now than ever. Even then Draymond didn't play enough to qualify for the list in his first year, FVV didn't even come close and while Jokic did play 20 minutes in the regular season as a rookie, the Nuggets missed the play-offs. For a team to hit big on a late pick or undrafted guy, while also being a top contender and still needing that relatively unknown player to play a big role right off the bat is not completely impossible but it's so unlikely I wouldn't be surprised if I never saw a rookie play 20 MPG for championship team ever again in my life.

Dutchball97 wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:1950: Vern Mikkelsen, Slater Martin
1954: Clyde Lovelette
1956: Tom Gola
1957: Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn
1963: John Havlicek
1975: Jamaal Wilkes
1980: Magic Johnson
1983: Marc Iavaroni
2003: Manu Ginobili

This is everyone who played 20 MPG+ in both the regular season and play-offs as a rookie. Sanders in 61, McHale in 81, Rambis in 82 and Cassell in 94 were all close as well. Nowadays rookies barely play for championship teams and some don't even have rookies on their roster. With a bigger league it became harder for teams to turn it around right away, top teams also picked later and later decreasing the chance of an immediate impact player and contenders are more likely to trade their draft assets. Even Manu barely made the cut and he's an extreme outlier as a rookie. How many more Euroleague Finals MVPs, 2-time Italian league MVPs, world championship runner-up who made the all-tournament team and a total of 7 years of pro experience under their belt, entering the league at 25 years old are we going to see? Because that guy is the only one to accomplish this feat in the last 4 decades. We're very unlikely to ever get a rookie playing a significant role on a championship team again imo.

Ever again? stranger things have happened.

It is harder for the championship teams to get a good rookie to contribute because of their draft picks, but they're not as far away from quality as you're implying. Good rookie is not the same thing as a good prospect.

Often times some of the best rookies, as in players who actually help their team win are going to be older players who are taken out of the lotto, not a top 3 pick which in these days are going to be 19 year old raw players. It's not inconceivable to land a decent roleplayer in the draft.

There is a difference between a rookie who can contribute in a valuable manner right away and a rookie who plays over 20 minutes per game in both the regular season and play-offs. There have been a couple of rookies who did play a decent role since Manu but just not near those minute thresholds. Kuminga for example was definitely a contributing rookie last season but did not have a role comparable to Magic or even Manu.

Ever again might be a bit much to say yeah but it's at the very least highly unlikely for the forseeable future. With the talent pool continuing to grow we're seeing more late picks turn into star players now than ever. Even then Draymond didn't play enough to qualify for the list in his first year, FVV didn't even come close and while Jokic did play 20 minutes in the regular season as a rookie, the Nuggets missed the play-offs. For a team to hit big on a late pick or undrafted guy, while also being a top contender and still needing that relatively unknown player to play a big role right off the bat is not completely impossible but it's so unlikely I wouldn't be surprised if I never saw a rookie play 20 MPG for championship team ever again in my life.

I certainly wouldn't say Kunminga played a big role - he didn't play a single non-garbage time minute in the playoffs. Even Moody got a little more run and that was just limited minutes against Dallas with Payton out.

Obvously with most rookies getting younger it's harder to get real minutes on a contender. Even the best one and done guys tend to be more interesting than good so if you're giving one of them big minutes you're probably not winning a lot. It's certainly still possible though unlikley in any given year. It's just not going to be some high-end young prospect but more likely an older role player (Herb Jones is more the model for doing this than Cade Cunningham).
Of course even then many older rookies take a year or two to settle in - even at 25 Manu was a ways off from the impact he'd have in a couple of years. Still I'd expect it to happen in a once in 20 years sort of rarity.

Bill Russell was the best player on a championship team in 1957