Kobe/Curry scoring efficiency in the Finals

[SpreeS]

I calculated some interesting numbers for comparison Curry/Kobe scoring efficiency in the Finals, maybe for someone will be interested. It's no secret that Curry has better TS b/c of different eras, but I'll give you some comparisons that you won't find on the web.

Curry 34 games .596 ts
Kobe 37 games .507 ts

The gap is huge, but it doesnt show everything how good or bad they were.

1. Lets look at what kind of defences they faced and how they elevated offences against them in the Finals. I dont compare RS defences b/c of Lebron Cavs, Toronto and Boston were totaly diferent teams in RS and PO.

Kobe opponents def rtg of the first 3 rnds - 99,99 dertg, relative to league PO (00-02,04,08-10) avg -4,94
Curry opponents def rtg of the first 3 rnds - 105,96 defrtg, relative to league PO (15-19,22) avg -2,84

Kobe finals offrtg 106,05, relative to opponents def rtg of the first 3 rnds +6,06
Curry finals offrtg 113,87, relative to opponents def rtg of the first 3 rnds +7,91

Kobe faced tougher defences, but Curry escalated better offences, but the differences are very similar.

2. Finals TS% relative to league PO avg

Kobe - Finals TS .507, league PO avg TS .523 , diff -.016
Curry - Finals TS .596, league PO avg TS .549 , diff +.047

The gap is huge even consider better Kobes oppenents defences

3. Kobe/Curry finals TS% compare to teammates Finals TS%

Kobe - Finals TS .507, teammates finals TS .542 , diff -.035
Curry - Finals TS .596, teammates finals TS .558 , diff +.038

Wow this is shocking how bad Kobes TS to teammmates...Kobes temmates had better TS in the Finals than league avg against TOP defences. Everyone understand that Kobe was focal point for opp defences, but Curry also was.

4. Kobe/Curry Finals TS% to the first 3rnds TS%

Kobe - Finals TS .507, first 3rnds TS .549 , diff -.042
Curry - Finals TS .596, first 3rnds TS .613 , diff -.017

[Stalwart]

Kobe played in an entirely different era. 4 of his finals were during the toughest defensive era in NBA history. 3 of his Finals were against the best defenses arguably in Finals history. He was also injured in 2000 and had a broken finger in 2010. Also, he was the only shot creator and playmaker on his team for 3 of those finals.

Also, Steph is an amazing player in his own right.

This is the type of defense Kobe faced. A complete mugging.

Watch on YouTube

[SpreeS]

Kobe played in an entirely different era. 4 of his finals were during the toughest defensive era in NBA history. 3 of his Finals were against the best defenses arguably in Finals history. He was also injured in 2000 and had a broken finger in 2010. Also, he was the only shot creator and playmaker on his team for 3 of those finals.

Also, Steph is an amazing player in his own right.

This is the type of defense Kobe faced. A complete mugging.

Watch on YouTube

So many bad shots and teammates are wide open...If you have 2/3 defenders on you, pass the ball, someone is open.

[Stalwart]

Kobe played in an entirely different era. 4 of his finals were during the toughest defensive era in NBA history. 3 of his Finals were against the best defenses arguably in Finals history. He was also injured in 2000 and had a broken finger in 2010. Also, he was the only shot creator and playmaker on his team for 3 of those finals.

Also, Steph is an amazing player in his own right.

This is the type of defense Kobe faced. A complete mugging.

Watch on YouTube

So many bad shots and teammates are wide open...If you have 2/3 defenders on you, pass the ball, someone is open.

He did pass. Guys weren't finishing. The shots were tough because the defense was so elite. But imagine if they were calling fouls. Kobe would be living at the free throw line and his TS% would be much higher. But when they let you hand check, grab, slap, shove, hold, illegal screen well what are you going to do.

As good as the Celtics were they only did so well against Bryant because the refs were swallowing their whistles. If they called the game correctly Kobe would have put up his usual numbers.

[MyUniBroDavis]

*grabs popcorn*

[Masigond]

So many bad shots and teammates are wide open...If you have 2/3 defenders on you, pass the ball, someone is open.

He did pass. Guys weren't finishing.

No, he did not. In the video you can see that he doesn't even try to look if someone's open, and sometimes they are waving that they want the ball. It was always like Jamison told ESPN what Kobe said HIMSELF:
“Kobe will tell you, he’s like, ‘Look, you guys as my teammates, yell at me. Let me know that you’re open because I’m so programmed,’” Jamison told ESPN LA radio. “And this guy has told me this. ‘I see nothing but that basket. You could be open. It could be three guys on me. But the only thing I see is that basket. So, you have to tell me, Look, I was open. Or yell at me in mid-play.’ He said,
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2013/03/21/kobe-bryant-tells-his-teammates-not-to-expect-passes-from-him-unless-they-demand-the-ball/

This "guys aren't able to finish, so the superstar has to do it by himself" is such a lazy and old narrative as an excuse for a bad offense and selfish play by the designated playmaker. Especially when the guy has a full career of broken plays, forced plays and- I repeat myself - his own admission that he doesn't have the instinct to pass (and I would add: often the will to pass as he wanted to be "the man" like his hero Jordan. He had stretches when he came to the sense that passing is another option but rarely out of recognising in a play itself that this is the better option right now). Most of his teammates were seasoned veterans, and don't tell me that they wouldn't finish at a somewhat better efficiency when they were that open. The Celtics' defense didn't give them that much space because they assumed that all these guys would score on a bad efficiency but because everyone knew that Kobe would do it all by himself on so many plays that you can afford to leave other players alone. They wouldn't get the ball anyway.

[70sFan]

Yeah, Curry is significantly more efficient scorer. I don't think conparing strictly their finals performances make a lot of sense, but no matter how you will look at it, Curry will always remain more efficient.

It doesn't necessarily make him a better player, remember that.

[Masigond]

Kobe's defense makes up for a lot of it (when committed to it), and he seemed to have way more stamina. Problem is that he simply wasn't able to score that efficiently on a regular basis. The reasons are that he didn't have the same big hands that made ball control so easy for Jordan when slashing to the basket, he wasn't as good from mid-range (arguably because he never found his true sweet spots. Something that Jordan concentrated on), and shot selection.
Curry is truly insanely gifted. There's a reason why he is seen as the best shooter in NBA history ever: Because he can hit his shots from such a long distance (and taken so quickly) that the defense can't even contest them.
The Warriors' spacing helps a lot of course in making it difficult for the opponents to fully concentrate on him.

[SpreeS]

He did pass. Guys weren't finishing. The shots were tough because the defense was so elite. But imagine if they were calling fouls. Kobe would be living at the free throw line and his TS% would be much higher. But when they let you hand check, grab, slap, shove, hold, illegal screen well what are you going to do.

As good as the Celtics were they only did so well against Bryant because the refs were swallowing their whistles. If they called the game correctly Kobe would have put up his usual numbers.

Kobe had only 2 Finals where has better TS% than teammates,

00 -14.4%
01 -5.9%
04 -3.0%
08 -4.6%
09 -1.7%

[Stalwart]

He did pass. Guys weren't finishing. The shots were tough because the defense was so elite. But imagine if they were calling fouls. Kobe would be living at the free throw line and his TS% would be much higher. But when they let you hand check, grab, slap, shove, hold, illegal screen well what are you going to do.

As good as the Celtics were they only did so well against Bryant because the refs were swallowing their whistles. If they called the game correctly Kobe would have put up his usual numbers.

Kobe had only 2 Finals where has better TS% than teammates,

00 -14.4%
01 -5.9%
04 -3.0%
08 -4.6%
09 -1.7%

And?

[No-more-rings]

Agenda thread, nothing to see here really.

[HeartBreakKid]

You don't take into account RS defense because every team Curry faced in the finals were so magical that their RS was totally irrelevant.


Steph Curry is a more efficient player during the RS and PS, so this isn't exactly news that he is more efficient than Kobe in the finals.


Lazy hit piece.

[Amares]

No surprise, Curry has been clearly a better and more efficient player on offense. And Kobe was clearly more selfish and was looking to mainly level up his stats instead of playing team ball. He was being accousted for attempting too many shots and playing selfish ball for the whole career, not without reason.

[LukaTheGOAT]

*grabs popcorn*

Ain't you a Kobe guy? Go defend your man's

[Stan]

I've seen people try to defend Kobe's horribly inefficient Finals play for years. The go to argument is the defenses that he had to face. He for sure faced tougher Finals defenses than Curry, and in tougher playing environments to boot, but he was still very inefficient compared to his peers. I'll even cede Kobe '04 & '08 since he was facing historic defenses, though he was still inexcusably bad against Detroit.

2000: Yes, he did get injured, but he looked fine in Game 4 before going an astounding 12/47 over the final 2 games. Ray, Iverson & Houston all had higher scoring series on better efficiency against Indy than Kobe did, and none of them had the luxury of apex Shaq being the focus of the defense.

2001: Different season, same story. Reggie, Vince & Allen all had higher scoring series on significantly better efficiency against Philly than Kobe did, and again, none of them had peak Shaq to their team.

2002: His one very efficient Finals.

2009: Kobe had a good series, but LeBron just eviscerated the same Magic defense the series before, scoring a lot more points on better efficiency.

2010: Wade had a much better series against the same Celtics defense, scoring more points on significantly better efficiency.

Did Kobe play tough Finals defenses? Sure. But as you can see, there's a trend of star shooting guards/perimeter players performing better against those same defenses than Kobe did.

[No-more-rings]

2002: His one very efficient Finals.

Prior to that series he had a 48.8 ts% in that run though. It was probably the only time Kobe performed better in the finals than the conference playoffs.

[G35]

The question is, what is more important...efficiency or effectiveness....

[Colbinii]

The question is, what is more important...efficiency or effectiveness....

What is the reason for your belief of Kobe being "More Effective" Offensively?

[eminence]

You don't take into account RS defense because every team Curry faced in the finals were so magical that their RS was totally irrelevant.


Steph Curry is a more efficient player during the RS and PS, so this isn't exactly news that he is more efficient than Kobe in the finals.


Lazy hit piece.

It is at least notable that those Cavs half-assed the RS more than most when talking about finals opponents.

[SpreeS]

You don't take into account RS defense because every team Curry faced in the finals were so magical that their RS was totally irrelevant.


Steph Curry is a more efficient player during the RS and PS, so this isn't exactly news that he is more efficient than Kobe in the finals.


Lazy hit piece.

What is the point of RS in this era? No one cares about RS in these days. Labron Cavs played with one leg in RS. TOR kept away Kawhi from 25% of RS games and traded for Gasol in Feb. BOS the first and second half of RS were like day and night.