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Peregrine01 wrote:I saw a stat that showed that Jokic in his last two seasons had a better 2 point FG% than Shaq did in any of his prime seasons. Which is flabbergasting to think about since Shaq dunked everything and Jokic shoots foaters, hooks and fadeaways.

I really think this guy has the GOAT hands.

Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, we'd really need some bigger sample shot-tracking data for guys like Kareem, Moses, and Wilt to get a good sense on how he stacks up historically. But as is with most offense comparisons, 2020-22 Jokic is right up there with the best. I'm fascinated to see how his career arc progresses going forward. Easy to say given his age and skill level that maybe this is who he is now, but I also don't think that this level of outlier mid-range efficiency the past 146-games is sustainable over a player's prime (I guess, unless you're Jordan).

Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, we'd really need some bigger sample shot-tracking data for guys like Kareem, Moses, and Wilt to get a good sense on how he stacks up historically. But as is with most offense comparisons, 2020-22 Jokic is right up there with the best. I'm fascinated to see how his career arc progresses going forward. Easy to say given his age and skill level that maybe this is who he is now, but I also don't think that this level of outlier mid-range efficiency the past 146-games is sustainable over a player's prime (I guess, unless you're Jordan).

JimmyFromNz wrote:Certainly another means of confirming just how versatile and polished his repertoire is. Though as mentioned by others, the nature of those shots in today's game should be taken to account, given how stretched the floor is, what that means for the paint space, and in fact the types of defenders and contests he would see on those shots compared to say - the heavy machinery in the paint during the 90s etc.

70sFan wrote:Among top tier 3-10 shooters, in my tracking sample 1971-79 Kareem shot 60% of his shots from that range and he converted them above 50 FG%. That's ridiculous combination of efficiency and volume.

Jokic is great of course though.

sixerswillrule wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, we'd really need some bigger sample shot-tracking data for guys like Kareem, Moses, and Wilt to get a good sense on how he stacks up historically. But as is with most offense comparisons, 2020-22 Jokic is right up there with the best. I'm fascinated to see how his career arc progresses going forward. Easy to say given his age and skill level that maybe this is who he is now, but I also don't think that this level of outlier mid-range efficiency the past 146-games is sustainable over a player's prime (I guess, unless you're Jordan).

For what it's worth, Jokic is at 56% from this range over his entire career at 4.4 attempts per game. I don't think anyone from this period (last 25 years) with 3+ attempts per game has a 7 year stretch that even cracks 50%. Unbelievable.

But yeah, I'm sure a couple of those old school players do stack up better compared to Jokic.

eminence wrote:

sixerswillrule wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, we'd really need some bigger sample shot-tracking data for guys like Kareem, Moses, and Wilt to get a good sense on how he stacks up historically. But as is with most offense comparisons, 2020-22 Jokic is right up there with the best. I'm fascinated to see how his career arc progresses going forward. Easy to say given his age and skill level that maybe this is who he is now, but I also don't think that this level of outlier mid-range efficiency the past 146-games is sustainable over a player's prime (I guess, unless you're Jordan).

For what it's worth, Jokic is at 56% from this range over his entire career at 4.4 attempts per game. I don't think anyone from this period (last 25 years) with 3+ attempts per game has a 7 year stretch that even cracks 50%. Unbelievable.

But yeah, I'm sure a couple of those old school players do stack up better compared to Jokic.

Deandre Ayton is on pace to meet that bar through his first 4 seasons I believe.

I saw a stat that showed that Jokic in his last two seasons had a better 2 point FG% than Shaq did in any of his prime seasons. Which is flabbergasting to think about since Shaq dunked everything and Jokic shoots floaters, hooks and fadeaways.

cupcakesnake wrote:

70sFan wrote:Among top tier 3-10 shooters, in my tracking sample 1971-79 Kareem shot 60% of his shots from that range and he converted them above 50 FG%. That's ridiculous combination of efficiency and volume.

Jokic is great of course though.

When the only potential comparison is Kareem's skyhook... you're doing alright for yourself, Joker!

Do you have those separated into seasons? Just wondering what Cap's career-high is looking like. OP gave a few example of bigs who scraped above 50% from that range. Jokic's past 3 seasons: 59.9%, 57.2%, and 60.6%! He's not taking the same volume of shots from there, obviously, since Jokic shoots 3. Kareem could probably force offense more from that range, with Jokic being slightly more opportunistic with when he can get those shots off. Both are pretty resilient shots though.

kcktiny wrote:

I saw a stat that showed that Jokic in his last two seasons had a better 2 point FG% than Shaq did in any of his prime seasons. Which is flabbergasting to think about since Shaq dunked everything and Jokic shoots floaters, hooks and fadeaways.

You do realize - do you not - that while the past 2 seasons Jokic shot 63% on 2s, just the league average C outside of Jokic shot 59% on 2s.

And Gobert shot 70% on 2s, Ayton 64%, Robert Williams 73%, Daniel Gafford 69%, Jarrett Allen 66%, Mitchell Robinson 72%, Richaun Holmes 65%, Mason Plumlee and Myles Turner 63%, etc.

At no time between 1992-93 and 2010-22 when Shaq played did the league average C (Cs other than Shaq) ever shoot as high as even 53% on 2s, and shot as low as 47%.

eminence wrote:

sixerswillrule wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, we'd really need some bigger sample shot-tracking data for guys like Kareem, Moses, and Wilt to get a good sense on how he stacks up historically. But as is with most offense comparisons, 2020-22 Jokic is right up there with the best. I'm fascinated to see how his career arc progresses going forward. Easy to say given his age and skill level that maybe this is who he is now, but I also don't think that this level of outlier mid-range efficiency the past 146-games is sustainable over a player's prime (I guess, unless you're Jordan).

For what it's worth, Jokic is at 56% from this range over his entire career at 4.4 attempts per game. I don't think anyone from this period (last 25 years) with 3+ attempts per game has a 7 year stretch that even cracks 50%. Unbelievable.

But yeah, I'm sure a couple of those old school players do stack up better compared to Jokic.

Deandre Ayton is on pace to meet that bar through his first 4 seasons I believe.