Moses malone vs charles barkley. Better at peak

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Best peak

Moses
9
64%
Barkley
5
36%
 
Total votes: 14

falcolombardi
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Moses malone vs charles barkley. Better at peak 

Post#1 » by falcolombardi » Thu Sep 1, 2022 1:20 am

Who do you have as the better player?

I am looking into them head to head for a bit later in the peaks project
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Re: Moses malone vs charles barkley. Better at peak 

Post#2 » by 70sFan » Thu Sep 1, 2022 6:24 am

Moses, significantly better defender at his peak.
falcolombardi
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Re: Moses malone vs charles barkley. Better at peak 

Post#3 » by falcolombardi » Thu Sep 1, 2022 6:37 am

70sFan wrote:Moses, significantly better defender at his peak.


I am watching a bunch of 1990 barkley right now for the peaks project later and the thingh that is notable is how absurd of a offensive rebounder he is. He is very active in both ends and his combo of long and high reach, wide body and quick jumping + rebounding motor is absurd. He just steals rebounds on bigger players from behind them (when he is not pushing them around before the board bounces for position)

How do you compare moses rebounding to barkley. (I know moses is THE offensive rebounder but i have not dived deep in game film of his yet)

Another notable thingh is passing. Barkley throws some very good reads and passes for lobs, cutters and specially bounce passes on the fastbreak (his running the fastbreak is lebron-lite, both with and without the ball).

Moses instead is -supposed- to be a weak passer in comparision, do you agree with that assesment and how much of a weakness would moses passing be

As for barkley defense....is weak. He is a strong defensive rebounder and doesnt get targeted 1vs1 so there is that.... everytgingh else he does is more questionable

The rotations can be bad and slow (and he would be more of a weakness in modern eras where he likely would be put in more screens) but the really perplexing thingh is how bad he is at helping in the paint. (What could have been a strenght with his physical gifts)

His contests and help defense attempts often range from too late, pointless, out of useful position or even causing unneeded/useless fouls. There are even awkward possesions where he puts himself in a driving path but not in charge position so he is just a traffic cone

I feel like he is a neutral defender at absolute best around 90~ based on film watched. How was moses in comparision

Actually the more i think, the more i realize why barkley is seen as a small shaq. Unstopable on the boards, unheralded passer, monster scorer. Bad decision making and effort defensively (shaq may have been lazier at times but barkley makes more mistakes)
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Re: Moses malone vs charles barkley. Better at peak 

Post#4 » by 70sFan » Thu Sep 1, 2022 7:35 am

falcolombardi wrote:I am watching a bunch of 1990 barkley right now for the peaks project later and the thingh that is notable is how absurd of a offensive rebounder he is. He is very active in both ends and his combo of long and high reach, wide body and quick jumping + rebounding motor is absurd. He just steals rebounds on bigger players from behind them (when he is not pushing them around before the board bounces for position)

How do you compare moses rebounding to barkley. (I know moses is THE offensive rebounder but i have not dived deep in game film of his yet)

Moses had different technique of grabbing the boards, Barkley was more athletic while Malone relied on his positioning and quick second jump ability. I also think that Moses drew more fouls on the board than Barkley, although I don't have any stats to back it up. Moses was a sneaky flopper and refs gave him a lot of questionable calls inside.

Another notable thingh is passing. Barkley throws some very good reads and passes for lobs, cutters and specially bounce passes on the fastbreak (his running the fastbreak is lebron-lite, both with and without the ball).

Moses instead is -supposed- to be a weak passer in comparision, do you agree with that assesment and how much of a weakness would moses passing be

Yes, this is where Barkley has massive edge. I find Charles to be excellent, but not top tier passer for his position. He was quite versatile and didn't have any notable weaknesses in that aspect.

Meanwhile Moses was just very unwilling passer. He wasn't ball dominant, but once he got the ball, chances are that he wouldn't give it back. He was focused on things he did well and rarely went beyond that.

Strangly enough, his only quality reads were usually the ones that are significantly more advanced than finding an open shooter. He could find cutters reasonably well when he wanted and sometimes he showed signs of decent vision.

Overall, he wasn't a good passer though and he didn't like to give the ball back to shooters. Most of his turnovers came from scoring attempts, not passing ones.

As for barkley defense....is weak. He is a strong defensive rebounder and doesnt get targeted 1vs1 so there is that.... everytgingh else he does is more questionable

The rotations can be bad and slow (and he would be more of a weakness in modern eras where he likely would be put in more screens) but the really perplexing thingh is how bad he is at helping in the paint. (What could have been a strenght with his physical gifts)

His contests and help defense attempts often range from too late, pointless, out of useful position or even causing unneeded/useless fouls. There are even awkward possesions where he puts himself in a driving path but not in charge position so he is just a traffic cone

I feel like he is a neutral defender at absolute best around 90~ based on film watched. How was moses in comparision

Moses wasn't elite defender and before 1982, I wouldn't say he has a clear edge over Barkley. Younger Moses was low energy defender with weak fundamentals, so despite reasonable athleticism he wasn't that good.

I think he improved notably in 1982 and especially in 1983. His lack of size still hurt him in comparison to elite rim protectors, but I would still call him a decent rim protector. On top of that, he was savvy post defender and had reasonably quick hands. His awareness wasn't the greatest and you can find games in which he looked mediocre, but that didn't happen too often in 1983 (at least in games I watched). On perimeter, he was a strange case. He had enough quickness to guard smaller guys (despite the reputation of a banger, Moses was reasonably quick), but there were possessions when he didn't even try to do much. On the other hand, there were also moments in the playoffs when Cunningham switched Moses into Marques Johnson and he did reasonably well against him.

I think Moses in right system (which he had in 1983) was a good defender and at his peak he wasn't exploitable. The +/- data we have gives us similar picture, he's seen as a clear positive in 1983-85 sample.

It's not Amar'e vs Hakeem comparison there, but the gap is significant.

Actually the more i think, the more i realize why barkley is seen as a small shaq. Unstopable on the boards, unheralded passer, monster scorer. Bad decision making and effort defensively (shaq may have been lazier at times but barkley makes more mistakes)

That's a good comparison. I think the only thing that makes Shaq a better defender than Barkley is his immense size. When you look at Shaq's fundamentals (footwork, shot contests, rim protection), he doesn't look any better than Charles but his size made him more effective anyway.

Barkley is significantly better midrange shooter and he was far more skilled offensive player in general, but I see the similarities.

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