Best 1 Year Peak: Sidney, Clyde, Reggie, George, Joe, Ray, Manu, VC, A.I

[mdonnelly1989]

Best 1 Year Peak amongst these SGs

[AEnigma]

Immediately not considering Iverson, Dumars, or Allen.

Drexler versus Carter versus Gervin is tough. I think I ultimately side with Drexler as the best passer and defender.

Manu is probably the best when on the court, but I do think he deserves some markdown for a light load. Even in the playoffs he was never playing heavy minutes like the others. Cutting him.

I miiight exclude Moncrief here for being the worst playoff faller left. He is still good, and his efficiency maintains in a couple of those runs, but he really needs to be a secondary option, and I do not think his defence is so next level that being a truer offensive lead could not outweigh it.

Reggie versus Drexler… oof, now that really is a question of what we value…

I guess Drexler if I need a playmaker, Reggie if I already have a good one.

[trex_8063]

Immediately not considering Iverson, Dumars, or Allen.

Yeah, Dumars immediately felt out of place to me, too.

I'm not super-high on AI, so it would probably not be him for me either.

Somewhat doubtful Ray has a strong case, but I think he's a bit of a sleeper for many. His '01 campaign is nothing to sneeze at (and personally I'd put him a little ahead of '01 Iverson): 22/5/5 [in a sluggish era] on elite [almost hyper-elite relative to league] shooting efficiency while anchoring the #1 offense and coming one game shy of going to the Finals [instead of Iverson] (he was dropping 25/4/6 in the playoffs, btw, with no drop in efficiency). So idk, Ray might be a dark-horse candidate for me.

I'm also not as high on Sidney as many, mostly because his defense doesn't stand out to me as much on film as I expect from the 2 DPOY's. Maybe I've just not watched the good games for him. But if he doesn't basically have near "defensive anchor" level impact on that end, then it's probably not him. I think he's maybe a bit like Dumars in that he's overrated defensively, but probably underrated offensively.

So probably Joe, Sidney, and AI are the three out of the running for me.

[AEnigma]

I like Ray, and I do not think it is ridiculous to argue that 2001 could be a better season than 1994 Reggie… but I personally cannot really get there, so including Reggie in the comparison essentially ends his candidacy on arrival.

[HeartBreakKid]

Probably Manu. I don't think it's that close really.

[Stalwart]

Have to go Iverson. Single handidly carried his teams entire offense and led his team to the #2 record in the league and eventually the Finals. Led the league in both PPG and SPG. He was the league MVP, AS MVP, and All NBA.

Just an all around dominate season and arguably the best playoff carry job of all time.

Those who dismiss Iverson's 2001 season are ideologues who don't like Iverson's personality and style of play.

[Colbinii]

I would take Manu and Miller as a 1A/1B here [Tier of their own] due to their offensive ability [True #1 and highly efficient].

[penbeast0]

Immediately not considering Iverson, Dumars, or Allen.

Drexler versus Carter versus Gervin is tough. I think I ultimately side with Drexler as the best passer and defender.

Manu is probably the best when on the court, but I do think he deserves some markdown for a light load. Even in the playoffs he was never playing heavy minutes like the others. Cutting him.

I miiight exclude Moncrief here for being the worst playoff faller left. He is still good, and his efficiency maintains in a couple of those runs, but he really needs to be a secondary option, and I do not think his defence is so next level that being a truer offensive lead could not outweigh it.

Reggie versus Drexler… oof, now that really is a question of what we value…

I guess Drexler if I need a playmaker, Reggie if I already have a good one.

On the other hand, if you are going 1 year peak, Sid had some strong playoff runs too. Take 85 for example, over two series Sid led the league in playoff WS/48 (.217) while shooting nearly .700 ts% from the field! 84 was good too and his deepest playoff run beating the Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ Celtics. If you went career then you could look at his bad playoffs in 82, 83, and 86 but they shouldn't be relevant for a 1 year comp.

Also curious why Allen gets dismissed with the likes of Iverson and Dumars.

[Stalwart]

Im curious why the most successful seadon from both a individual and team perspective fets dismissed. What exactly do you guys have against Iverson?

[HeartBreakKid]

Im curious why the most successful seadon from both a individual and team perspective fets dismissed. What exactly do you guys have against Iverson?

He doesn't have the most successful season. Everyone already knows what your rebuttal will be - you're going to say the guys who had more team success didn't have their own team - which is nonsense because none of these guys are good enough to carry a team to a championship (Manu actually did carry Argentina to one and coincidentally beat Iverson who had an incredibly stacked team, but I digress). But just pointing out what you said was not correct.

I don't think anyone has anything against him, unless you are asking why people are not voting for him. It's because he's not as good as the others, obviously.



Why did you say it's in the argument for best playoff carry job of all time? You know full well you did not actually bother to look into the 80 year history of the NBA to see if that is actually true. It wasn't even the best carry job of the season, one of the teams Iverson beat was worse than his own and they took the Sixers to 7 games. (I'm alluding to his team nearly getting upset by the Raptors)

Iverson's team wasn't weak for it's conference so you'll need to breakdown how it is the best carry job of all time. Literally the next year his team got bumped by Paul Pierce who was carrying the Celtics. That same year the Nets went to the Finals who were carried by Jason Kidd...Who are these teams that the Sixers upset that makes them the greatest carry job ever? The Bucks?


You're making it seem like Allen Iverson played with a bunch of scrubs, and even if that was true - that wasn't unique for the East. How is that even better than your arch enemy, Lebron James run in 2007?

[Dutchball97]

I've got Drexler here with Reggie Miller right behind him. Would've gone for Manu if he played more.

[Jaivl]

Excellent question. My order:

1978 Gervin

2001 Carter
2005 Ginóbili
1992 Drexler

1994 Miller
1984 Moncrief
2001 Iverson
2001 Ray

Very small gaps. Dumars is the only one I would not consider. Ginóbili was probably the best one per-minute.

[Jaivl]

Why did you say it's in the argument for best playoff carry job of all time?

You know the answer dude, it's cause tRoLliNg LeBron sTaNs

[Homer38]

Im curious why the most successful seadon from both a individual and team perspective fets dismissed. What exactly do you guys have against Iverson?

Iverson was not much better in 2001 that Jason Kidd was in 2002.Iverson was also brutal in the first 5 games vs Bucks.Brutal!

The 76ers won game 5 even if Iverson had 5-27 for 15 points

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200105300PHI.html

Ray Allen was much better in that series,same for Vince Carter in the series before

[HeartBreakKid]

Why did you say it's in the argument for best playoff carry job of all time?

You know the answer dude, it's cause tRoLliNg LeBron sTaNs

I don't think it's related to Lebron actually (if it turns out I'm wrong and it is then sheesh...). I just think it's an insane statement that was said blindly without bothering to check if that's true.

He says in argument for best carry job for all time but I'm not sure if he knows about anything that say happened in the 70s or whenever. How did Iverson carry his team harder than Dr.J? The answer is obvious, simply don't learn anything about Dr.J etc.

[AEnigma]

Immediately not considering Iverson, Dumars, or Allen.

Drexler versus Carter versus Gervin is tough. I think I ultimately side with Drexler as the best passer and defender.

Manu is probably the best when on the court, but I do think he deserves some markdown for a light load. Even in the playoffs he was never playing heavy minutes like the others. Cutting him.

I miiight exclude Moncrief here for being the worst playoff faller left. He is still good, and his efficiency maintains in a couple of those runs, but he really needs to be a secondary option, and I do not think his defence is so next level that being a truer offensive lead could not outweigh it.

Reggie versus Drexler… oof, now that really is a question of what we value…

I guess Drexler if I need a playmaker, Reggie if I already have a good one.

On the other hand, if you are going 1 year peak, Sid had some strong playoff runs too. Take 85 for example, over two series Sid led the league in playoff WS/48 (.217) while shooting nearly .700 ts% from the field! 84 was good too and his deepest playoff run beating the Bird/McHale/Parish/DJ Celtics. If you went career then you could look at his bad playoffs in 82, 83, and 86 but they shouldn't be relevant for a 1 year comp.

Also curious why Allen gets dismissed with the likes of Iverson and Dumars.

Explained Allen beneath Trex’s post. Just tough when one of the other guys is Miller. If Miller were gone, he would make for a similarly interesting debate.

Even when Moncrief had his good runs in 1984 and 1985, his scoring load decreased a fair bit (also, the Bucks beat the Celtics in 1983). I do not think he is a bad playoff performer; like I said, I just think I would rather have a shooting guard’s offence maintain than have their defence maintain. Is 1984/85 Moncrief doing better than Drexler on the 1992 Blazers? Maybe, but I personally doubt it. Most of these guys take on a heavier scoring (and playmaking) load than what Moncrief did in his best runs, and I am skeptical the tradeoff for his defence would be worth it.

[penbeast0]

I think the choice depends a lot of team composition but if are choosing just a one year peak and the team needs defense from the guard spot more than a primary unipolar scoring focus, Sid is the best defender and a very capable 1A/1B type offensive option in his healthy years.

[AEnigma]

Im curious why the most successful seadon from both a individual and team perspective fets dismissed. What exactly do you guys have against Iverson?

He doesn't have the most successful season. Everyone already knows what your rebuttal will be - you're going to say the guys who had more team success didn't have their own team - which is nonsense because none of these guys are good enough to carry a team to a championship (Manu actually did carry Argentina to one and coincidentally beat Iverson who had an incredibly stacked team, but I digress). But just pointing out what you said was not correct.

I don't think anyone has anything against him, unless you are asking why people are not voting for him. It's because he's not as good as the others, obviously.

Why did you say it's in the argument for best playoff carry job of all time? You know full well you did not actually bother to look into the 80 year history of the NBA to see if that is actually true. It wasn't even the best carry job of the season, one of the teams Iverson beat was worse than his own and they took the Sixers to 7 games. (I'm alluding to his team nearly getting upset by the Raptors)

Iverson's team wasn't weak for it's conference so you'll need to breakdown how it is the best carry job of all time. Literally the next year his team got bumped by Paul Pierce who was carrying the Celtics. That same year the Nets went to the Finals who were carried by Jason Kidd...Who are these teams that the Sixers upset that makes them the greatest carry job ever? The Bucks?

You're making it seem like Allen Iverson played with a bunch of scrubs, and even if that was true - that wasn't unique for the East. How is that even better than your arch enemy, Lebron James run in 2007?

It was not just Carter either!

Iverson: 31.5 points per game on 50.8% efficiency in 46 minutes per game
Miller: 31.3 points per game on 60.6% efficiency in 44.1 minutes per game

Iverson: 33.7 points per game on 50.2% efficiency in 46.3 minutes per game.
Carter: 30.4 points per game on 56.7% efficiency in 44.8 minutes per game

Iverson: 30.5 points per game on 43.5% efficiency in 45.9 minutes per game, missed game 3
Allen: 27.1 points per game on 61.4% efficiency in 42 minutes per game

2002 Iverson: 30 points per game on 51.5% efficiency in 41.9 minutes per game
Pierce: 30.2 points per game on 60.7% efficiency in 42.5 minutes per game

Oh, and as a bonus contrast…
McGrady: 33.8 points per game on 48.3% efficiency in 44.3 minutes per game
Allen: 24.5 points per game on 68.6% efficiency in 42.1 minutes per game

Iverson the only player to be positionally out-duelled literally every round and still be stanned for it.

[1993Playoffs]

Miller seems like the clear choice here

[Stalwart]

Im curious why the most successful seadon from both a individual and team perspective fets dismissed. What exactly do you guys have against Iverson?

He doesn't have the most successful season. Everyone already knows what your rebuttal will be - you're going to say the guys who had more team success didn't have their own team - which is nonsense because none of these guys are good enough to carry a team to a championship (Manu actually did carry Argentina to one and coincidentally beat Iverson who had an incredibly stacked team, but I digress). But just pointing out what you said was not correct.

Why would you compare the team success of someone coming off the to bench to the team success of the #1 guy on the team? Seriously, what's the thinking behind that?

I don't think anyone has anything against him, unless you are asking why people are not voting for him. It's because he's not as good as the others, obviously.

Then why are people dismissing his historic season and all the winning, individual distinction, and individual success? Is it because ges a volume scorer or something?

Why did you say it's in the argument for best playoff carry job of all time? You know full well you did not actually bother to look into the 80 year history of the NBA to see if that is actually true. It wasn't even the best carry job of the season, one of the teams Iverson beat was worse than his own and they took the Sixers to 7 games. (I'm alluding to his team nearly getting upset by the Raptors)

Iverson's team wasn't weak for it's conference so you'll need to breakdown how it is the best carry job of all time. Literally the next year his team got bumped by Paul Pierce who was carrying the Celtics. That same year the Nets went to the Finals who were carried by Jason Kidd...Who are these teams that the Sixers upset that makes them the greatest carry job ever? The Bucks?

I was referring to teams that made the Finals. And I said it was arguably the best carry job, which it was. What makes it such a carry job is the offensive load he carried. Kidd and Pierce both had help. Iverson truly had little to no help offensively. And if Vince was able to get past Iverson he'd be viewed as arguably the best carry job. But as it stands Iverson came out on top so he gets that title.

What are all of these superior carry jobs you're alluding to?

You're making it seem like Allen Iverson played with a bunch of scrubs, and even if that was true - that wasn't unique for the East. How is that even better than your arch enemy, Lebron James run in 2007?

How was Lebron's run in 07 any better than Iverson's? Id say they were similar.