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Imo it probably goes like this. Off the top of my head.

#1. Jokic
#2. Steph Curry
#3. Luka

These are your clear cut top 3. Then probably.

#4/5. KD
#4/5. Lebron

#6. Embiid
#7. Giannis
#8. (Dame) when healthy.
#9. Jayson Tatum
#10. Ja Morant

Jokic, Curry, Luka, Embiid, Giannis, KD, Trae, Morant, Tatum, Lebron

I suppose

Jokic
Curry
Luka
Lebron
KD
Kawhi
Giannis
Embiid
Dame
Zion

Jimmy somewhere in the top 7 if his playoff mode is real

Agree its Joker, Steph, Luka in that order. I would have Giannis higher than the rest of you though. We have a huge sample size now showing him to be an absolutely elite offensive player. I get his game is so unique, but that's okay. I also think Trae has to be in the top 10 even though looking at UniBro's list it is hard to decide who to bump to make room for him.

1. Jokic
2. Luka
3. Steph

4. KD
5. Ja
6. Donovan Mitchell
7. Lebron
8. Giannis
9. Trae

10. Embiid

*Note, based on what we last saw of Kawhi, I would be tempted to have him #3 and no lower than #4. I want to see how he looks after injury.

Jokic
Curry

Young
Doncic

KD
LeBron

Giannis
Mitchell
Morant
Embiid

Jaivl wrote:Jokic
Curry

Young
Doncic

KD
LeBron

Giannis
Mitchell
Morant
Embiid

No juancho hernangomez, alias the france destroyer?

Texas Chuck wrote:Agree its Joker, Steph, Luka in that order. I would have Giannis higher than the rest of you though. We have a huge sample size now showing him to be an absolutely elite offensive player. I get his game is so unique, but that's okay. I also think Trae has to be in the top 10 even though looking at UniBro's list it is hard to decide who to bump to make room for him.

While I have Giannis as the best player in the world right and agree he is very good on offense I gotta question him being among the top dogs in that regard. The thing is his skillset isn't as versatile. He is not the same playmaker as Joker, Luka or LeBron. He doesn't have the range of Steph. I think it kind of depends on what role you wanna give Giannis, I think as a roll player he is absolutely tremendous and that in the open court he's by far the best offensive player. However, giving him the ball to generate offense won't give you better results than giving the ball to other guys.

The rollling part also kind of depends on what the initiator is able to do, so with that said I believe he can't ever reach the offensive power of others. However if you give him good/great playmakers and floor spacing... and his gravity near the basket might cause the biggest ceilling raise on a very good team.

It's a good point for discussion, definitely. In a vacuum and given the possibility of non ideal circumstances I would trust others more to carry the offensive load. I still think LeBron, Luka and Jokic are the best offensive players.

Joao Saraiva wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Agree its Joker, Steph, Luka in that order. I would have Giannis higher than the rest of you though. We have a huge sample size now showing him to be an absolutely elite offensive player. I get his game is so unique, but that's okay. I also think Trae has to be in the top 10 even though looking at UniBro's list it is hard to decide who to bump to make room for him.

While I have Giannis as the best player in the world right and agree he is very good on offense I gotta question him being among the top dogs in that regard. The thing is his skillset isn't as versatile. He is not the same playmaker as Joker, Luka or LeBron. He doesn't have the range of Steph. I think it kind of depends on what role you wanna give Giannis, I think as a roll player he is absolutely tremendous and that in the open court he's by far the best offensive player. However, giving him the ball to generate offense won't give you better results than giving the ball to other guys.

The rollling part also kind of depends on what the initiator is able to do, so with that said I believe he can't ever reach the offensive power of others. However if you give him good/great playmakers and floor spacing... and his gravity near the basket might cause the biggest ceilling raise on a very good team.

It's a good point for discussion, definitely. In a vacuum and given the possibility of non ideal circumstances I would trust others more to carry the offensive load. I still think LeBron, Luka and Jokic are the best offensive players.

Oh I agree he's not as good as the best of the best. But I think he's as good as everyone else and better than a lot guys frequently mentioned as elite offensive players. He's simply done it for too long and on the biggest of stages.

I actually think, with all apologies to Steph, that Joker is 1 of 1 right now offensively. But I don't think Giannis is that far behind Steph and Luka, just they all do it so completely differently. I think Luka and Steph scale better perhaps, but Giannis is less dependent on teammates to deliver than they are, so you aren't ever going to see a prime Giannis missing the playoffs the way Curry did 2 years ago. Steph played better 2 years ago than last year, but his teammates couldn't take advantage of his gravity the way the guys this past season could. Giannis isn't as vulnerable to that.

Texas Chuck wrote: But I don't think Giannis is that far behind Steph and Luka, just they all do it so completely differently. I think Luka and Steph scale better perhaps, but Giannis is less dependent on teammates to deliver than they are, so you aren't ever going to see a prime Giannis missing the playoffs the way Curry did 2 years ago. Steph played better 2 years ago than last year, but his teammates couldn't take advantage of his gravity the way the guys this past season could. Giannis isn't as vulnerable to that.

Yeah, I mean, he's been what, a 6+ OBPM guy four years running now? 7.4 and 7.6 in 2020 and 2022 (the latter being second in the league)? A rude, single marker, of course, but he was also third in offensive EPM. And at base, still a 29.9 ppg guy on 63.3% TS who put up .615 FTr, exerting Shaq-like foul pressure on the opposition. He was even semi-competent at the line for once.

So yeah, I think there is a pretty reasonable argument that Giannis is pretty close to that top 3, even if the aesthetics of his game are far more barbaric. I think this is the old Shaq argument, right? People don't always enjoy the blunt, brute force of his game and favor the aesthetic of the jumper and all that, so they deny his efficacy. Giannis is... not a graceful player, but he's very powerful and he's huge. And he's grown a lot in his skills even the past couple of seasons. He's actually very much the sort of player Shaq spoke of as the future in his autobiography like twenty years ago.

So yeah, there's definitely a pro-Giannis argument to made against most players in the league, even among the upper echelon. Against anyone but Jokic, and maybe Steph still.

1. Jokic

2. Steph
3. Luka

4. Giannis
5. Trae
6. Bron
7. KD

8. Embiid
9. Harden
10. Tatum


Jokic is on his own tier, imo. Steph when he's on is better but he's having more and more stretches of cold shooting whereas Jokic's impact stays in a remarkably tight range from game to game and no defense seems to have much of an effect on him.

tsherkin wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote: But I don't think Giannis is that far behind Steph and Luka, just they all do it so completely differently. I think Luka and Steph scale better perhaps, but Giannis is less dependent on teammates to deliver than they are, so you aren't ever going to see a prime Giannis missing the playoffs the way Curry did 2 years ago. Steph played better 2 years ago than last year, but his teammates couldn't take advantage of his gravity the way the guys this past season could. Giannis isn't as vulnerable to that.

Yeah, I mean, he's been what, a 6+ OBPM guy four years running now? 7.4 and 7.6 in 2020 and 2022 (the latter being second in the league)? A rude, single marker, of course, but he was also third in offensive EPM. And at base, still a 29.9 ppg guy on 63.3% TS who put up .615 FTr, exerting Shaq-like foul pressure on the opposition. He was even semi-competent at the line for once.

So yeah, I think there is a pretty reasonable argument that Giannis is pretty close to that top 3, even if the aesthetics of his game are far more barbaric. I think this is the old Shaq argument, right? People don't always enjoy the blunt, brute force of his game and favor the aesthetic of the jumper and all that, so they deny his efficacy. Giannis is... not a graceful player, but he's very powerful and he's huge. And he's grown a lot in his skills even the past couple of seasons. He's actually very much the sort of player Shaq spoke of as the future in his autobiography like twenty years ago.

So yeah, there's definitely a pro-Giannis argument to made against most players in the league, even among the upper echelon. Against anyone but Jokic, and maybe Steph still.

Pretty big difference between Giannis and Shaq still, bulldozing and dunks notwithstanding. Giannis needs a head of steam to plow guys over whereas Shaq just backs them under the rim. Which is why Giannis doesn't have the same kind of impact in the half-court. If anything, Jokic last season has played more like Shaq.

Not sure about a ranking but my top 10 would probably include:

Curry
Jokic
Lebron
Trae
Luka
Giannis
Mitchell
Durant
Lillard
Morant

Leaving Kawhi/Zion off my list, not comfortable enough with them, I'd estimate Kawhi somewhere in tier 2, Zion somewhere in tier 3. Doing tiers, so more than 10.

Solid arguments for #1
Jokic
Curry

Clearly great offensive players - mostly fully comfortable building completely around them on that end (some reservations with Trae for the playoffs, but hey, he's young)
Luka
KD
LeBron
Dame
Giannis
Trae

Very strong offensive players - can be a 1a on a good offense easily imo
Embiid
Mitchell
Tatum
Kyrie
Booker
Morant
Towns
Harden
Butler
Garland

Then in no order some guys who are young and could be joining the tiers above - LaMelo, Edwards, are old and maybe could still have it - CP3, or are just really guys I think of as decent 1bs or strong #2s - PG13, Davis, Jrue, DeRozan?, LaVine, Brown, McCollum, and I'm sure some others. DeRozan gets the ? due to potential meh fit next to higher tier talent and a history of playoff woes.

Peregrine01 wrote:
Pretty big difference between Giannis and Shaq still, bulldozing and dunks notwithstanding. Giannis needs a head of steam to plow guys over whereas Shaq just backs them under the rim. Which is why Giannis doesn't have the same kind of impact in the half-court. If anything, Jokic last season has played more like Shaq.

Oh there's a very large difference. I was comparing them in very simple aesthetic terms, nothing deeper than "hurr, big guy go burr" in contrast to the more aesthetically interesting players who aren't necessarily more effective.

I’m actually surprised Kyrie hasn’t gotten a single mention here. I’d put him over Mitchell and Morant in this ranking tbh.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:Imo it probably goes like this. Off the top of my head.

#1. Jokic
#2. Steph Curry
#3. Luka

These are your clear cut top 3. Then probably.

#4/5. KD
#4/5. Lebron

#6. Embiid
#7. Giannis
#8. (Dame) when healthy.
#9. Jayson Tatum
#10. Ja Morant

Would love to hear your statistical argument for how Trae is not in your top 5, let alone how you left him out of your top 10 altogether. Blasphemous. the guy by himself is a top 5 entire team offense and he led the ENTIRE NBA in points and assists last year.

Texas Chuck wrote:Agree its Joker, Steph, Luka in that order. I would have Giannis higher than the rest of you though. We have a huge sample size now showing him to be an absolutely elite offensive player. I get his game is so unique, but that's okay. I also think Trae has to be in the top 10 even though looking at UniBro's list it is hard to decide who to bump to make room for him.

I’d take out Zion for trae if I didn’t think he’d have a special year this year

I feel you with Giannis, I just have trouble ranking him above anyone I have above him. I don’t think the top 7 have that much seperation

My main thing is, kawhi was on his way to some absurdity in 2021 before he got hurt, durant I think has earned the right to have a stinker and still give him the benifit of the doubt, and bron hasn’t been healthy in the playoffs for a minute

It’s more about me giving the benefit of the doubt to the guys 4-6 than anything else. Hams looking like a good coach and I could see bron having a 2020 level season (and I’d still put 2020 playoff bron a good deal above everyone, and if purely offensively I’d have him pretty easily top three I don’t know where exactly though). Durants stock dropped because of his stinker vs the Celtics, i don’t know if I’d drop it to that degree, and Kawhi just scares me in general more than anyone else lol

I don’t think I’m low on giannis in an all time sense or anything, I’m just high on the others and give KD and Kawhi alotnof the benifit of the doubt

Actually I might put giannis and bron higher because of the new transition rule lol

Let's start with my ranking and then I will explain my choices.

1. Nikola Jokić
2. Stephen Curry
3. Luka Dončić
4. Kevin Durant
5. Trae Young
6. LeBron James
7. Giannis Antetokounmpo
8. Karl-Anthony Towns
9. Joel Embiid
10. Ja Morant

Honorable Mentions*: Zion Williamson, Damian Lillard, Kawhi Leonard, Donovan Mitchell

* Some of these are due to injuries and I want to see them on the court again before I rank.

Jokić, to me, is the clear best offensive player in the league. I've never seen someone quite like him on the basketball court and his ability to basically do anything he wants on the offensive side of the floor is entering G.O.A.T. territory to me.

Curry is still Curry, and I think if I really squint, you could still make the argument he is the best offensive player in the league. I cannot go that far, but his off-ball gravity is unparalleled and his 3pt shot is still so deadly.

Dončić has moved ahead of Durant for me, and I think it's going to be the way from this past season onwards. His ability to just patiently destruct really good defensive teams and make extremely difficult shots/reads is amazing for me to watch. I am not a big fan of heliocentrism in basketball because I believe it can hard cap a team, but Dončić is breaking that notion for me.

Durant, as I said, has moved behind Dončić for me. But, he is still arguably the best scorer in the NBA and that's something he has been doing for a very long time. Not only do I think he is arguably the best scorer, but he has shown a refined passing game in his first couple of seasons with the Brooklyn Nets. He still has some difficulty balancing that scoring and passing effectively, which is why Dončić has moved ahead for me.

Young did not end last season on a positive note after his rather terrible series versus the Miami Heat, but he is still a top 5 offensive player in this game to me. His ability to hit the deep three has made him one of the most difficult players to defend in the league and his PNR ability is truly top-tier stuff. I could see Young as high as number two on this list, but I feel comfortable with him here at five.

James is still very much the definition of "him" and he is not to blame for the Los Angeles Lakers failures last season. He had injury issues for sure that contributed to some of those failures, but he also was doing everything he could to help the team win. He had some of his best offensive stretches of his season playing center, which is just incredible. The man is going into his age 38 season and is still one of the very premier players in the NBA.

Antetokounmpo is the best transition player in basketball and it is nearly impossible to stop him in the open court. He showed improvements as a passer last season that helped increase his stock as one of the best playmakers in the league. However, he does have his limitations in the half-court and often settles for some bad 3pt shots that make me not willing to put him above the others listed.

I was going back and forth between Towns and Embiid for the eighth spot on this list but I ultimately landed on Towns. Towns and Nowitzki are the two best shooting bigs of all time (Towns is the superior 3pt shooter, and Nowitzki is the superior mid-range shooter) and I think that is what puts him ahead of Embiid for me currently. I also find Towns to be the superior passer at this stage compared to Embiid.

Embiid is who I land on here at number nine. Even though I do find Towns to be the better passer, Embiid has massively improved year-to-year in that department and was making some excellent reads last season. Embiid is another candidate, along with Jokić and Durant, for the best scorer in the league. His ability to draw fouls and get to the line is unprecedented and his post moves and handle are very advanced for a big guy. An argument can certainly be made for both Towns and Embiid at either spot, in my opinion.

Morant is who I have at number 10. He was absolutely mind-blowing to watch last season. One of the most explosive, athletic players I have ever seen at the point guard position, and his ability to hang in the air for what feels like an eternity is so cool to witness. He's also a pretty nice passer from what I've watched, and I think he has the Grizzlies blossoming into a young dynasty. What prevents him from being higher on this list is I do not like his 3pt shot at all and I think he is going to have to really improve in that area for him to jump in these rankings.

I am looking forward to watching the names I have on my Honorable Mentions list and seeing if any of them jump back into the top 10.