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I guess it would have to depend on the match-up. But I'd say in most cases in modern basketball I would choose Kevin Durant. I would only choose LeBron if the defense match-up is more of a bulky dude (I'm imagining 2013 LeBron).

On offense I think being a 4 implies a lot of pick and roll so I would also choose Kevin Durant as the more lethal option.

Obviously you can't really go wrong either way.

Both their playstyles would be fine and even though most PFs used to play more like a second center or center/wing hybrid, it's certainly becoming more common for teams to put in a 4 who is fully a wing with no attributes of a big. We're not lookng at someone who plays like them though. If the choice is 2013 LeBron or 2017 KD I don't really see many, if any, team configurations where I wouldn't go with LeBron.

Offensively I don't think it matters much, defensively it's LeBron easily.

giordunk wrote:I guess it would have to depend on the match-up. But I'd say in most cases in modern basketball I would choose Kevin Durant. I would only choose LeBron if the defense match-up is more of a bulky dude (I'm imagining 2013 LeBron).

On offense I think being a 4 implies a lot of pick and roll so I would also choose Kevin Durant as the more lethal option.

Obviously you can't really go wrong either way.

RE: Pick and Roll: I think LeBron is a much better pick and roll threat than Kevin Durant. LeBron is one of the most physical players ever, which leads to him being one of the best pick and roll finishers ever.

While the samples are small, LeBron's PPP were insane from 2016-onward [No data from 2011-2015].

2016: 1.36 PPP, 95th Percentile
2017: 1.43 PPP, 96th Percentile
2018: 1.23 PPP, 80th Percentile
2019: 1.32 PPP, 90th Percentile
2020: 1.08 PPP, 50th Percentile [13 Possessions]
2021: 1.00 PPP, 30th Percentile [24 Possessions]
2022: 1.43 PPP, 93rd Percentile

Compare this to Durant, who has been in the 90th Percentile Once and typically has seasons like 2020 and 2021 LeBron [Looking at Durant sample from 2016-2022]. Putting LeBron next to a talented Point Guard like Kyrie Irving is essentially a cheat code offensively--far more than Durant placed in the pick & roll.

RE: Defense: LeBron was a much better defender than Durant and provided countless examples throughout his career of anchoring a back-line defense. LeBron is capable of engineering a defense while Durant peaked at being a strong [weak All-Defensive level] weapon who rotated well and relied on his length to disrupt offenses [rather than positioning]. I much prefer my '4' to be switchable and versatile and there are few defenders in league history as versatile as Prime, Locked-In LeBron James.

I would go with Durant, he is a better rim protector, better shooter and post up player. LBJ is a better point forward, but at the 4, I want different characteristics.

Gooner wrote:I would go with Durant, he is a better rim protector, better shooter and post up player. LBJ is a better point forward, but at the 4, I want different characteristics.

There is zero way durant is a better rim protector than lebron

falcolombardi wrote:

Gooner wrote:I would go with Durant, he is a better rim protector, better shooter and post up player. LBJ is a better point forward, but at the 4, I want different characteristics.

There is zero way durant is a better rim protector than lebron

But the Blocks!

giordunk wrote:I guess it would have to depend on the match-up. But I'd say in most cases in modern basketball I would choose Kevin Durant. I would only choose LeBron if the defense match-up is more of a bulky dude (I'm imagining 2013 LeBron).

On offense I think being a 4 implies a lot of pick and roll so I would also choose Kevin Durant as the more lethal option.

Obviously you can't really go wrong either way.

KD refuses to set picks so how is he a better pick and roll option.

Are we talking with both in their actual prime and not currently? Lebron is simply better at any position you put them at.

Lebron played at the power forward position in 2013 and 2014.

Many consider 2013 Lebron his overall peak and 2014 his offensive peak. Therefore I'd take that over whatever year you believe KD would be best served at the 4.

For example, looking at Lebron's 2013 season

PIPM: 7.78
RAPTOR: 9.62
BPM: 11.7
TWPR: 81.96



Kevin Durant's Career Peaks-

PIPM (Only have up through 2020): 6.15
RAPTOR: 7.54
BPM: 10.2
TWPR (Only have up through 2020)-67.61

For all intents and purposes, Lebron's 13 season (which is not his peak according to these metrics, and one might argue had Lebron not playing his natural position) surpassed any season of Durant's. I don't see the evidence that Durant would bring some new value at the 4 that could touch these numbers. And considering Lebron had these impact numbers playing on an all-time team like the 13 Heat, this is not the example of a player's numbers being inflated playing for a weak squad, but rather suggestive of a type of impact that could transfer across situations.

I think another thing to note, is that there seems to be a belief that because of Durant's superior size and length, along with generally better block numbers, that he might be a better fit at the 4. However, Durant misses more rotations on defense because he has lesser instincts than Lebron. So, I think you will see him give up more layups which are the most value shots in the game; though perhaps when Durant is in position and loaded up, he could be argued to be a better rim-protector because of the aforementioned characteristics.

If this is for today's game, I think you could argue things are more advantageous for 13 Lebron, as he is more likely to have a size advantage, and more spacing for drives. I think this could make his offense potentially more devastating and open up more angles for his skip passing. Also, in today's game with so much spacing, I think it is possible more than ever you ask for your 4 to roam alas Giannis, and I think Lebron probably better fits that billing. And finally, in terms of pick and roll, Lebron can still be the ball-handler as the 4-man, and you can have guards set screens on his guy (pretty sure Miami did this), and it works pretty well. Lebron can also be the screener; I'm not sure KD has this kind of versatility.

I like the best player, so give me Lebron. Positions matter so little.

KD, his game is much more aesthetically pleasing to me.

In this era it wouldn't matter no other bigs are banging down low.

Gooner wrote:I would go with Durant, he is a better rim protector, better shooter and post up player. LBJ is a better point forward, but at the 4, I want different characteristics.

Durant is not a better rim protector or post up player though.

JordansBulls wrote:In this era it wouldn't matter no other bigs are banging down low.

Yeah, guys like Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Towns don't exist.

Texas Chuck wrote:I like the best player, so give me Lebron. Positions matter so little.

assume you have both players

I don't think it makes much difference if you put LeBron at the 3 or the 4. At the end of the day he's simply better than KD is. The only case for KD imo is in some sort of extreme case like maybe the 17-19 Warriors where all he's really being asked to do is shoot and get to the rim a little but even then LeBron might have made them better and either way you still have the greatest team of all time so its just splitting hairs.

henshao wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:I like the best player, so give me Lebron. Positions matter so little.

assume you have both players

Then it isn't relevant. You play both of them.

70sFan wrote:

JordansBulls wrote:In this era it wouldn't matter no other bigs are banging down low.

Yeah, guys like Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Towns don't exist.

Even guys like Sabonis, Vucevic and AD are bigs who will play down low for stretches.

Colbinii wrote:

henshao wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:I like the best player, so give me Lebron. Positions matter so little.

assume you have both players

Then it isn't relevant. You play both of them.

I think what was meant here is which one would you play at the 4 and which one at the 3?

Is not that relevant in practice for offense but whoever is the 3 will be further out to the perimeter defending wings and less likely to roam for help defense inside than the guy playing 4 in defense