RealGM

Which duo would you rather build around in today's league?

is the garnett -> ewing impact disaprity smaller than the lebron -> curry one?
Because fit obviously goes to option 1 and you have the proof of concept in a better league.

Curry-garnett is made in a lab, is like a better version of curry-draymond

Lebron vs ewing is not as ideal but peak ewing adds lots of value in ways that compliment lebron well as a floor spacer big (i assume both ewing and garnett would become 3-point shooters in today game) and rim protector big, he was also athletic enough to finish lobs and inside passes by bron including the full court

I think it could go either way

Curry and KG fit perfectly. But I can't pass up the other duo, with the best player in Lebron getting to play with an elite rim protector.

Tomtolbert wrote:Curry and KG fit perfectly. But I can't pass up the other duo, with the best player in Lebron getting to play with an elite rim protector.

Yeah. Lebron paired with another top 30-35 ish player all time for their careers is hard to pass up on in the vast majority of scenarios.

The other duo could be like a better Curry/Draymond but they still aren’t Lebron.

OhayoKD wrote:is the garnett -> ewing impact disaprity smaller than the lebron -> curry one?

Quite bigger, and not sure Curry actually has the advantage over KG either.

isn't Lebron-Ewing a less exciting version of Lebron-AD?
Curry-KG for me

AdagioPace wrote:isn't Lebron-Ewing a less exciting version of Lebron-AD?
Curry-KG for me

No, because we get prime LeBron and someone who can stay healthy for more than one season

Where I think these sorts of comparisons tend to go wrong imo is always focusing on fit when we can already see that either pair at their best would be huge favorites to win a title. To me the focus should be much more on each duo's ability to maximize rings won which has more to do with things like health and longevity.

LeBron and Ewing need shooting and defense and they'll be asking it from a PG, SG & PF.


Curry and Garnett just need defense, and the defenders they get will be a SG, SF & C.

Curry & KG are not only more impactful, but they are easier to build around. Their team will likely be better on both ends.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron and Ewing need shooting and defense and they'll be asking it from a PG, SG & PF.


Curry and Garnett just need defense, and the defenders they get will be a SG, SF & C.

Curry & KG are not only more impactful, but they are easier to build around. Their team will likely be better on both ends.

No, James and Ewing wouldn't need defense to be elite defensively.

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron and Ewing need shooting and defense and they'll be asking it from a PG, SG & PF.


Curry and Garnett just need defense, and the defenders they get will be a SG, SF & C.

Curry & KG are not only more impactful, but they are easier to build around. Their team will likely be better on both ends.

No, James and Ewing wouldn't need defense to be elite defensively.

James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

2007: 4th, -5.2 rDRtg
2009: 3rd, -5.9 rDRtg
2010: 7th, -3.5 rDRtg
2011: 5th, -3.8 rDRtg
2012: 4th, -4.4 rDRtg

Yeah, "almost never" elite. Not to mention that his teams usually became significantly worse without him on the floor defensively.

It seems that people start to forget that there was a time when LeBron was fighting for DPOY (rightfully or wrongly).

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

I didn't say that, although James and Davis won it all without shooters.

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

2007: 4th, -5.2 rDRtg
2009: 3rd, -5.9 rDRtg
2010: 7th, -3.5 rDRtg
2011: 5th, -3.8 rDRtg
2012: 4th, -4.4 rDRtg

Yeah, "almost never" elite. Not to mention that his teams usually became significantly worse without him on the floor defensively.

It seems that people start to forget that there was a time when LeBron was fighting for DPOY (rightfully or wrongly).

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

I didn't say that, although James and Davis won it all without shooters.

It's easy to omit certain facts when the narrative doesn't jive for specific agendas.

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron and Ewing need shooting and defense and they'll be asking it from a PG, SG & PF.


Curry and Garnett just need defense, and the defenders they get will be a SG, SF & C.

Curry & KG are not only more impactful, but they are easier to build around. Their team will likely be better on both ends.

No, James and Ewing wouldn't need defense to be elite defensively.

Curry and KG would also still need shooting as well.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:LeBron and Ewing need shooting and defense and they'll be asking it from a PG, SG & PF.


Curry and Garnett just need defense, and the defenders they get will be a SG, SF & C.

Curry & KG are not only more impactful, but they are easier to build around. Their team will likely be better on both ends.

No, James and Ewing wouldn't need defense to be elite defensively.

James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

When did you start watching Lebron in like 2016? Because he didn’t coast at all on defense in his 20s, and had one of the top motors in the league between like 09-2013. I mean yeah he’s slowed down a bit the past several years because of age and injuries but that shouldn’t be the basis for how we’re judging him. He’s played 19 seasons in the league.

On the other hand, Ewing anchored the best defensive team we seen that decade. In fact I’d argue Lebron hasn’t had a teammate that was in Ewing’s league as a defender. 2020 Davis is like the only possible exception.

The idea that Kg/Curry would need less help on defense is a laughable take.

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

2007: 4th, -5.2 rDRtg
2009: 3rd, -5.9 rDRtg
2010: 7th, -3.5 rDRtg
2011: 5th, -3.8 rDRtg
2012: 4th, -4.4 rDRtg

Yeah, "almost never" elite. Not to mention that his teams usually became significantly worse without him on the floor defensively.

It seems that people start to forget that there was a time when LeBron was fighting for DPOY (rightfully or wrongly).

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

I didn't say that, although James and Davis won it all without shooters.

I wouldn't consider 5th or 7th of 30 elite. That's 76th-83rd percentile. Since when is the 7th best team in the NBA elite? 4th is boarderline.

LeBrons teams defensive ranking by year:

19th
12th
14th
4th
11th
3rd
7th
5th
4th
9th
11th
18th
10th
21st
29th
12th
3rd
1st
21st

That's an average of 11.8. 3 seasons in the top 3 seasons of 19.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

2007: 4th, -5.2 rDRtg
2009: 3rd, -5.9 rDRtg
2010: 7th, -3.5 rDRtg
2011: 5th, -3.8 rDRtg
2012: 4th, -4.4 rDRtg

Yeah, "almost never" elite. Not to mention that his teams usually became significantly worse without him on the floor defensively.

It seems that people start to forget that there was a time when LeBron was fighting for DPOY (rightfully or wrongly).

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

I didn't say that, although James and Davis won it all without shooters.

I wouldn't consider 5th or 7th of 30 elite. That's 76th-83rd percentile. Since when is the 7th best team in the NBA elite? 4th is boarderline.

LeBrons teams defensive ranking by year:

19th
12th
14th
4th
11th
3rd
7th
5th
4th
9th
11th
18th
10th
21st
29th
12th
3rd
1st
21st

That's an average of 11.8. 3 seasons in the top 3 seasons of 19.

Good to know garnett was not a elite defender until his 30's then either. He rarely had anythingh close to a top 5 defense in his prime

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:James coast almost the entire game and he plays one of the most important positions on defense. That's why his teams are almost never elite defensively. Usually around 10th in the league.

2007: 4th, -5.2 rDRtg
2009: 3rd, -5.9 rDRtg
2010: 7th, -3.5 rDRtg
2011: 5th, -3.8 rDRtg
2012: 4th, -4.4 rDRtg

Yeah, "almost never" elite. Not to mention that his teams usually became significantly worse without him on the floor defensively.

It seems that people start to forget that there was a time when LeBron was fighting for DPOY (rightfully or wrongly).

Saying they don't need defenders is pretty rediculous.

I didn't say that, although James and Davis won it all without shooters.

I wouldn't consider 5th or 7th of 30 elite. That's 76th-83rd percentile. Since when is the 7th best team in the NBA elite?

LeBrons teams defensive ranking by year:

19th
12th
14th
4th
11th
3rd
7th
5th
4th
9th
11th
18th
10th
21st
29th
12th
3rd
1st
21st

That's an average of 11.8. Up to 3 elite seasons of 19.

You may not consider 5th "elite", but -5 rDRtg is absolutely elite, way higher than 76th-83rd percentile historically. You should realize that positional comparison isn't perfect, as you can have a few elite defensive teams in the league.

Again, you're doing the average out of LeBron's full career, not his prime. You also didn't touch a thing about LeBron rating out very well in all of the defensive metrics we have. Sorry, but we don't have much evidence that LeBron "coast almost entire game" on defense - quite the opposite in fact. His profile paints him as very good, although inconsistent defender.

70sFan wrote:

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:

70sFan wrote:2007: 4th, -5.2 rDRtg
2009: 3rd, -5.9 rDRtg
2010: 7th, -3.5 rDRtg
2011: 5th, -3.8 rDRtg
2012: 4th, -4.4 rDRtg

Yeah, "almost never" elite. Not to mention that his teams usually became significantly worse without him on the floor defensively.

It seems that people start to forget that there was a time when LeBron was fighting for DPOY (rightfully or wrongly).


I didn't say that, although James and Davis won it all without shooters.

I wouldn't consider 5th or 7th of 30 elite. That's 76th-83rd percentile. Since when is the 7th best team in the NBA elite?

LeBrons teams defensive ranking by year:

19th
12th
14th
4th
11th
3rd
7th
5th
4th
9th
11th
18th
10th
21st
29th
12th
3rd
1st
21st

That's an average of 11.8. Up to 3 elite seasons of 19.

You may not consider 5th "elite", but -5 rDRtg is absolutely elite, way higher than 76th-83rd percentile historically. You should realize that positional comparison isn't perfect, as you can have a few elite defensive teams in the league.

Again, you're doing the average out of LeBron's full career, not his prime. You also didn't touch a thing about LeBron rating out very well in all of the defensive metrics we have. Sorry, but we don't have much evidence that LeBron "coast almost entire game" on defense - quite the opposite in fact. His profile paints him as very good, although inconsistent defender.

I mean, LeBrons only #1 rated team was out of his prime. His 2nd best defensive team was out of his prime, too. Take away those and he has ONE team that was top 3 in his entire career. Doesn't ONE YEAR fit "rarely" elite?

LeBron is an elite GOAT level defender for 4 minutes a game. The rest of the time he's avoiding it, and he usually lets his teammates guard the teams best player. He still needs teammates that can defend.