RealGM

Who's the greater player?

I find this a really perfect comparison because both guys were:
- point guards
- pre-3pt revolution guys
- elevated their games in the playoffs and had exceptional intangibles
- main cogs on two historic teams
- similar in longevity with around 7 prime seasons

But of course they have different games!

I have Frazier as comfortably better player, both for peaks and careers.

Have Frazier a decent margin better at their best, closer in terms of careers. Mid-late 30s vs early-mid 40s.

Haven't review Frazier lately but imagine I have him comfortably ahead. Don't see great cause for huge mainstream (and otherwise) rankings gaps between Thomas and other playoff raisers e.g. Gus Williams, Baron Davis, Bobby Wanzer etc.

Frazier is the better defender (by a lot), more efficient scorer (particularly relative to league), bigger and more versatile. Thomas is the quicker and produces more assists and points in his peak individual years plus he played in a tougher era.

I would take Clyde for peak and prime, Isiah has better longevity but I don't think it's enough to make up for Frazier's individual edge, so career as well.

I have Frazier ahead for both career and peak. He was a top tier alltime defender but also an unusually efficient scorer for his position and era. Reed got the FMVP in 1970 for the symbolic return in Game 7 but Frazier put in the work with an epic 36 pt, 19 ast, and 7 rebound performance (steals were not counted). He went 12/17 from the field and a perfect 12/12 from the free throw line.

Frazier is as good or better offensively imo while way better defensively. Just way bigger and stronger which helps on both ends of the court.

NW BBALL wrote:I have Frazier ahead for both career and peak. He was a top tier alltime defender but also an unusually efficient scorer for his position and era. Reed got the FMVP in 1970 for the symbolic return in Game 7 but Frazier put in the work with an epic 36 pt, 19 ast, and 7 rebound performance (steals were not counted). He went 12/17 from the field and a perfect 12/12 from the free throw line.

I will say it's now thought - by, I think, many here - that that 19 assist total was incorrect by error or fabrication (as in not dubious or doubtful but 10 out, wrong).
See, for instance, viewtopic.php?t=1130334
Mind you I don't think this should really affect perceptions of Frazier as a player.

Owly wrote:

NW BBALL wrote:I have Frazier ahead for both career and peak. He was a top tier alltime defender but also an unusually efficient scorer for his position and era. Reed got the FMVP in 1970 for the symbolic return in Game 7 but Frazier put in the work with an epic 36 pt, 19 ast, and 7 rebound performance (steals were not counted). He went 12/17 from the field and a perfect 12/12 from the free throw line.

I will say it's now thought - by think many here - that that 19 assist total was incorrect by error or fabrication (as in not dubious or doubtful but 10 out, wrong).
See, for instance, viewtopic.php?t=<a href="tel:1130334">1130334</a>
Mind you I don't think this should really affect perceptions of Frazier as a player.

Interesting. I was not aware and thank you for the linked thread. Still a great performance, especially the shooting efficiency, but definitely a big gap in the assist totals. It certainly makes you wonder about stats or box scores from games prior to archival video. Imagine watching the circumstances around Babe Ruth’s legendary called shot home run with modern baseball coverage.

Frazier pretty comfortably. I’d say he’s probably one of the most “underrated greats” ever.

Frazier is clearly a superior scorer and defender, and a very impressive passer on film too

I could believe that isiah was a overall better creator/passer but it would need to be by a big, big margin to make up the scoring efficiency and defense msrgins imo. And i am not seeing it

I too would say Frazier but not by a huge margin. I think Thomas' court vision was better and he put more pressure on the defense with his penetration. But like people said, I can't overlook Frazier's efficiency which makes him an overall superior scorer and his bone-crushing defense. I think Frazier might be the best defensive PG ever, in the same convo as Payton and Kidd.