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He effortlessly runs the floor, handles the ball, passes like a guard, shoots well and glides past the admiral a number of times. Really rare at his size. Not many have equaled his mobility. Who is a good comparison to him in this regard?

migya wrote:He effortlessly runs the floor, handles the ball, passes like a guard, shoots well and glides past the admiral a number of times. Really rare at his size. Not many have equaled his mobility. Who is a good comparison to him in this regard?

Kemp has a nice, perhaps underrated peak a/short prime and I think held up well in the playoffs. He actually remained productive and at first glance impactful in Cleveland.

That said ... "[he] had" seems to be suggesting this is about him in general. The comment then notes ... handles the ball, passes like a guard ...

My impression based mainly on what I've read and the numbers is that his teams wanted him to cut down fancy handling attempts and that he's somewhat high in "mistakes" and not a great passer. In terms of numbers he's narrowly at single-digit career assist percentage (9.8, though '94-99 gets to 11.6) and a high tov% (16.7, 17.5 for the 94-99 spell) for totals of 1704 assists, 2766 turnovers. There are great players with worse numbers in those regards but ... my impression is that him doing "skill[ed]", perimeter oriented ball handling and "pass[ing] like a guard" were generally not strengths and not things that helped his teams, though when stuff payed off it looked spectacular.

He's a physical force, long, explosive, agile. A bit "raw" in terms of the foul-proneness and decision making, though he had enough savvy to his game to keep himself pretty effective in Cleveland, and he wasn't Stro Swift where it's just athleticism. Still I'd say those are the defining traits more than any guard-like skills.

Owly wrote:

migya wrote:He effortlessly runs the floor, handles the ball, passes like a guard, shoots well and glides past the admiral a number of times. Really rare at his size. Not many have equaled his mobility. Who is a good comparison to him in this regard?

Kemp has a nice, perhaps underrated peak a/short prime and I think held up well in the playoffs. He actually remained productive and at first glance impactful in Cleveland.

That said ... "[he] had" seems to be suggesting this is about him in general. The comment then notes ... handles the ball, passes like a guard ...

My impression based mainly on what I've read and the numbers is that his teams wanted him to cut down fancy handling attempts and that he's somewhat high in "mistakes" and not a great passer. In terms of numbers he's narrowly at single-digit career assist percentage (9.8, though '94-99 gets to 11.6) and a high tov% (16.7, 17.5 for the 94-99 spell) for totals of 1704 assists, 2766 turnovers. There are great players with worse numbers in those regards but ... my impression is that him doing "skill[ed]", perimeter oriented ball handling and "pass[ing] like a guard" were generally not strengths and not things that helped his teams, though when stuff payed off it looked spectacular.

He's a physical force, long, explosive, agile. A bit "raw" in terms of the foul-proneness and decision making, though he had enough savvy to his game to keep himself pretty effective in Cleveland, and he wasn't Stro Swift where it's just athleticism. Still I'd say those are the defining traits more than any guard-like skills.

He was turnover prone and tried to be too fancy too often but he passed well in his setting and was cat like quick. His finishing ability was great, which is why he was effective near the basket and overall. He ran so well and was very good on both half court and transition.

Kemp was fun to watch at his peak. A nice 10 year run from 91-2000 that should put him in the hall....one day.....maybe.....hopefully.....

prolific passer wrote:Kemp was fun to watch at his peak. A nice 10 year run from 91-2000 that should put him in the hall....one day.....maybe.....hopefully.....

Hopefully for him he does. He stood out as a very well known and impactful player for a very good team, in a very talented era. He held his own to a degree against elite bigs alltime. I remember in 93, at such a young age, he performed well against Bartlett in the wcf. His performance in 96 is ofcourse his peak and it better than many ast his position.

migya wrote:

Owly wrote:

migya wrote:He effortlessly runs the floor, handles the ball, passes like a guard, shoots well and glides past the admiral a number of times. Really rare at his size. Not many have equaled his mobility. Who is a good comparison to him in this regard?

Kemp has a nice, perhaps underrated peak a/short prime and I think held up well in the playoffs. He actually remained productive and at first glance impactful in Cleveland.

That said ... "[he] had" seems to be suggesting this is about him in general. The comment then notes ... handles the ball, passes like a guard ...

My impression based mainly on what I've read and the numbers is that his teams wanted him to cut down fancy handling attempts and that he's somewhat high in "mistakes" and not a great passer. In terms of numbers he's narrowly at single-digit career assist percentage (9.8, though '94-99 gets to 11.6) and a high tov% (16.7, 17.5 for the 94-99 spell) for totals of 1704 assists, 2766 turnovers. There are great players with worse numbers in those regards but ... my impression is that him doing "skill[ed]", perimeter oriented ball handling and "pass[ing] like a guard" were generally not strengths and not things that helped his teams, though when stuff payed off it looked spectacular.

He's a physical force, long, explosive, agile. A bit "raw" in terms of the foul-proneness and decision making, though he had enough savvy to his game to keep himself pretty effective in Cleveland, and he wasn't Stro Swift where it's just athleticism. Still I'd say those are the defining traits more than any guard-like skills.

He was turnover prone and tried to be too fancy too often but he passed well in his setting and was cat like quick. His finishing ability was great, which is why he was effective near the basket and overall. He ran so well and was very good on both half court and transition.

Generally this seems more accurate and for the most part doesn't disagree with the above. Would still have to differ on "passed well within his setting". Per above he was passing a touch more in his prime but still far from ideal (and not close to guard-like).
Cf Barry (for instance from after '95

Rick Barry's Pro Basketball Bible 1995-95 Edition wrote:[floor game section] ... [stuff about him not playing in college ... "playground mode" too eager to go coast to coast, highlights turnovers] ... In the post, he's double-teamed regularly - a sound strategy, as he hasn't yet mastered the art of finding people without an undue amount of miscues... Still holds the ball too long on the box, but at least he's not forcing the action as much [then a source doubting he'll ever have sound fundamentals]

a very similar section is included in the version after '94. After '96 they changed the format and are generally more positive overall but don't really touch on passing (which, if not dictated by format change, may be an indication of improvement if it's not noteworthy enough to mention either way).

migya wrote:

prolific passer wrote:Kemp was fun to watch at his peak. A nice 10 year run from 91-2000 that should put him in the hall....one day.....maybe.....hopefully.....

Hopefully for him he does. He stood out as a very well known and impactful player for a very good team, in a very talented era. He held his own to a degree against elite bigs alltime. I remember in 93, at such a young age, he performed well against Bartlett in the wcf. His performance in 96 is ofcourse his peak and it better than many ast his position.

Bartlett was ok but Barkley was better. Kemp gave Hakeem fits probably more then any other big when Hakeem was in his prime from 93-97.

prolific passer wrote:

migya wrote:

prolific passer wrote:Kemp was fun to watch at his peak. A nice 10 year run from 91-2000 that should put him in the hall....one day.....maybe.....hopefully.....

Hopefully for him he does. He stood out as a very well known and impactful player for a very good team, in a very talented era. He held his own to a degree against elite bigs alltime. I remember in 93, at such a young age, he performed well against Bartlett in the wcf. His performance in 96 is ofcourse his peak and it better than many ast his position.

Bartlett was ok but Barkley was better. Kemp gave Hakeem fits probably more then any other big when Hakeem was in his prime from 93-97.

Damn tablets. Kemp's speed is what was effective against Olajuwon. Robinson also for Olajuwon.

He was fun to see.

Kemp was fun to see. Raw-as, but damn, what a finisher. And an entertaining persona on the court as well. Loads of fun.

This is my favorite Shawn Kemp moment.

His battles against Bartlett were legendary.

migya wrote:

prolific passer wrote:Kemp was fun to watch at his peak. A nice 10 year run from 91-2000 that should put him in the hall....one day.....maybe.....hopefully.....

Hopefully for him he does. He stood out as a very well known and impactful player for a very good team, in a very talented era. He held his own to a degree against elite bigs alltime. I remember in 93, at such a young age, he performed well against Bartlett in the wcf. His performance in 96 is ofcourse his peak and it better than many ast his position.

mcraft wrote:This is my favorite Shawn Kemp moment.

Watch on YouTube

I remember watching this series live and thinking that is was the first time Jordan wasn't the best player in a playoff series. Kemp was elite in 96.