RealGM

Who is the better player right now?

For this season right now : KD
Before the season started following the playoffs: Jimmy

Only one of them is a top 5 player in the league

KD is ahead in PER and EPM, Butler is ahead in WS/48 and RAPTOR, while they're pretty much equal in BPM (Butler with the 0.1 lead) so they're at least comparable for how they've played so far this season.

Jimmy. Better defender, better playmaker, less toxic to his team, better leader.

LesGrossman wrote:Only one of them is a top 5 player in the league

KD really isn't at this point in his career.

I’d probably rather have Butler given how poorly KD performed in the playoffs last year. It was against a great defense, and possibly flukey but I’m inclined to think not given his age and noticeable loss in quickness and athleticism. He’s still able to put up great numbers in the regular season and probably against some playoff opponents, but let’s be clear this isn’t the same KD of 5-6 years ago. KD’s probably still better in the regular season but he also missed a lot of games the past 3 seasons. You can’t rely on him for a full season these days. Although for KD to still be able to put up the numbers he does at his age and after all the wear and tear is pretty remarkable.

Peregrine01 wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:Only one of them is a top 5 player in the league

KD really isn't at this point in his career.

I think he absolutely is. Do yourself a favor and watch the Nets play. He is playing as hard on both ends as if those were the playoffs; a 25-30 point scorer, tough defender (especially helping), he is dishing out assists. He has somehow reached villain status in the league so noone wants to talk about him as MVP candidate but he plays a lot harder on D than Luka does, it takes a few sec to see that. He is 100x more skilled than Giannis who has nothing but length and athleticism. Jokic and Steph are the only comparable players in terms of real game impact right now imho. Thats my top 3 right now, even though i gotta admit i'm not closely following Boston. But Jimmy? Come on.

LesGrossman wrote:

Peregrine01 wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:Only one of them is a top 5 player in the league

KD really isn't at this point in his career.

I think he absolutely is. Do yourself a favor and watch the Nets play. He is playing as hard on both ends as if those were the playoffs; a 25-30 point scorer, tough defender (especially helping), he is dishing out assists. He has somehow reached villain status in the league so noone wants to talk about him as MVP candidate but he plays a lot harder on D than Luka does, it takes a few sec to see that. He is 100x more skilled than Giannis who has nothing but length and athleticism. Jokic and Steph are the only comparable players in terms of real game impact right now imho. Thats my top 3 right now, even though i gotta admit i'm not closely following Boston. But Jimmy? Come on.

The Nets are in the bottom half on offense and defense so call me skeptical when I think KD's contributions on either end are worthy of putting him in top-5 category. The team is a **** yes, but he has A LOT to do with that.

Feel free to pick either one, I just wanted to note that I feel as if people shouldn't let Durant's troubles last year against the Celtics (and Butler's successes), strongly cloud their judgement without considering this;

In 2021, KD was quite dominant against the Bucks, while Butler was the one who massively struggled. I believe matchups can really matter in a player's performance, and we would do best to keep that in mind.

I feel as if Butler being a better floor-raiser, is sensible in the fact that that he is a better playmaker, and can more run the responsibilities you would want from a PG. He can also get to the rim at this juncture better than KD when asking them to create off the dribble.

At the same time, KD's argument as a better ceiling raiser is pretty straight-forward: he's a better floor-spacer and shooter, and when you have guys who can run the offense, I think KD can go berserk. His ability to shoot coming off screens, is quite spectacular; if you don't burden Durant too heavy with playmaking and let him focus more on just getting a bucket, it is hard to see too many guys better at just that.

Peregrine01 wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:

Peregrine01 wrote:
KD really isn't at this point in his career.

I think he absolutely is. Do yourself a favor and watch the Nets play. He is playing as hard on both ends as if those were the playoffs; a 25-30 point scorer, tough defender (especially helping), he is dishing out assists. He has somehow reached villain status in the league so noone wants to talk about him as MVP candidate but he plays a lot harder on D than Luka does, it takes a few sec to see that. He is 100x more skilled than Giannis who has nothing but length and athleticism. Jokic and Steph are the only comparable players in terms of real game impact right now imho. Thats my top 3 right now, even though i gotta admit i'm not closely following Boston. But Jimmy? Come on.

The Nets are in the bottom half on offense and defense so call me skeptical when I think KD's contributions on either end are worthy of putting him in top-5 category. The team is a **** yes, but he has A LOT to do with that.

KD has a lot to do with the Nets being garbage? Have you watched a single game?

KD is playing brilliantly and he sticks with it even in blowouts. No bad attitude, body language, no giving up on the team, no finger pointing. He treats the rookies like equals and he works on D like a real leader, leading by example rather than by noise.

Their problem is that Kyrie is Kyrie, and guys who were safe banks shooting wise are absolutely horrible and cant make an open shot. KD gets double and triple teamed, finds the open guy and they just miss,and miss again. Seth, Pat, Joe usually high percentage catch and shoot role players cant make a basket. Its really sad to watch. But KD, and in the last game Ben Simmons, are not the reason for their losing.

I would take Butler, he just has more impact on winning these days than KD who's 30pts seems to just be...there as in it has little effect ln the outcomes of games. He also isn't a force on defense like prior years so I feel more comfortable with Butler's two play.
Who will hit a tough clutch jump shot a game saving block on the other end.

I'd take KD easily, at least in terms of on-court performance.

LesGrossman wrote:KD is playing brilliantly and he sticks with it even in blowouts. No bad attitude, body language, no giving up on the team, no finger pointing. He treats the rookies like equals and he works on D like a real leader, leading by example rather than by noise.

This aged well

Jaivl wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:KD is playing brilliantly and he sticks with it even in blowouts. No bad attitude, body language, no giving up on the team, no finger pointing. He treats the rookies like equals and he works on D like a real leader, leading by example rather than by noise.

This aged well

Which part are you disagreeing with?

I'm not naming names but even in this situation he is still being absolutely professional. Do you see him not running back on D? I watch him hustle on both ends while being blown out by 40.

LesGrossman wrote:Only one of them is a top 5 player in the league

Jokic/Giannis/Curry/Doncic/Tatum/Embiid - clearly better

SpreeS wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:Only one of them is a top 5 player in the league

Jokic/Giannis/Curry/Doncic/Tatum/Embiid - clearly better

That is just another opinion. I dont see Doncic even in the same league, because he gives zero effort on D and instead argues with the refs every other posession. So even if he is comparably talented as a scorer he is by far outperformed by KD on the other end.

For me its Jokic, Steph and KD and then the next group. Its easy to overlook KD right now with all the noise surrounding the Nets (most of which isnt related to him but to Kyrie, Ben or Steve Nash), but he is doing special things. Everyone knows his entire team has been robbed of their talents so he is double, often times even triple teamed and still produces on a high level.

Butler slightly, defensively and as a playmaker he's just way ahead even if scoring wise he isn't close to KD. Doesn't really feel like KD's scoring does much to produce good offense even if he's very efficient.

LesGrossman wrote:

Jaivl wrote:

LesGrossman wrote:KD is playing brilliantly and he sticks with it even in blowouts. No bad attitude, body language, no giving up on the team, no finger pointing. He treats the rookies like equals and he works on D like a real leader, leading by example rather than by noise.

This aged well

Which part are you disagreeing with?

I'm not naming names but even in this situation he is still being absolutely professional. Do you see him not running back on D? I watch him hustle on both ends while being blown out by 40.

Not sure if serious or you have no problem with KD throwing his teammates under the bus.

RCM88x wrote:Butler slightly, defensively and as a playmaker he's just way ahead even if scoring wise he isn't close to KD. Doesn't really feel like KD's scoring does much to produce good offense even if he's very efficient.

Uber efficient scorer who kinda does his own thing on an island. He's been that way his entire career...which is why he never led great offenses as a main engine (even in the OKC years Russ was driving things). Reminds me more and more of Adrian Dantley tbh.