How many Lebron years would you take over Peak Wilt?

[Matt15]

Title

[coastalmarker99]

I would take zero Lebron years as 1967 Wilt is the the Goat peak.


24 24 8 8 on 68% in the regular season.

Then 21 29 9 9 in the postseason.


The problem with Lebron is outside of 2009 and 2018 he didn’t really have a outlier peak in both the Regular season and playoffs at the same time.


As His playoffs in 2013 were very disappointing after the standard he had played in the regular season.


He was average throughout the first five finals games vs the Spurs outside of game 4

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm not sure if Lebron had peaked higher than Chamberlain or not. I suppose if I had a gun to my head I would say he did.

In that case, it'd probably be a handful of seasons as I think Lebron doesn't have much of an outlier peak. Perhaps 4 or 5?

[rk2023]

As one who is high on Wilt's apex personally, I would probably take 09/12/13 over (could see the arguments for 10 and 16 but am not the highest on either season due to the elbow injury / end of Celtics series and 15-16 being sort of a "get back into the groove of this GOAT offensive player" season for LeBron - especially in the RS).

From a regular season view, one could argue 67 Chamberlain has more impact (responsible for turning a good offensive cast into great one through efficient, shiftable scoring along with his best playmaking year & high assist volume without any "allegations" of hunting for assists. Furthermore, that could be near or at his best defensive season across his storied career).

From a playoff standpoint, I would give the edge to 09/12 LeBron with how valuable his ability to floor raise an offense through his "pick-your-poison" scoring and creation approach. LeBron also was a very engaged rebounder and defender in both years, that was when his motor was revving like a sports car to say the least. As shown by the Magic in 2009 and almost the entire slate of opponents faced in 2012, LeBron also played arguably the highest quality basketball of his career whilst facing top of the shelf caliber team defenses.

2013 was now this (very arguable) best regular season of all time, as LeBron looked like he mastered the game of basketball and had no exploitable hole. Playoffs was somewhat of a decline, but that could be attributed to situation and the fact that the Heatles were sacrificing LeBron ball possessions to a similar fundamentally "Wade-ball" heliocentric style. From like PBPStats combinations, some of the "LeBron on with Wade off" combinations especially in 2013 and 2014 are quite mind boggling from a individual and team number standpoint.

[OhayoKD]

The problem with Lebron is outside of 2009 and 2018 he didn’t really have a outlier peak in both the Regular season and playoffs at the same time.

Does 2016 not count? Outlier impact in the regular season per RAPM(higher than best of duncan and kg, signifcantly higher than any year of data we have for mj including 91 and 88), and wowy/real impact signals support this. The cavs were a sub-30 win team in games where lebron didn't play(with kyrie and love), but were able to win 57 with kyrie missing half the season and then played like a 65-70 win team int he playoffs.

The previous year a "worse" lebron swept the 55 srs, 60 win hawks, and took the 67 win warriors to 6 without kyrie or love.

That doesn't seem like less of an outlier than wilt's 67. As far as impact goes, the 2016 regular season looks better than tehe 2013 regular season which you called "maybe the greatest of all time"

[falcolombardi]

67 is so good that there is a case for zero, but gun to my head i would go with 3 i feel decently confident on (2009,2012,2016)

With cases for 2013 and 2017

[OhayoKD]

67 is so good that there is a case for zero, but gun to my head i would go with 3 i feel decently confident on (2009,2012,2016)

With cases for 2013 and 2017

2016 is basically russell's 1969 though

[falcolombardi]

As one who is high on Wilt's apex personally, I would probably take 09/12/13 over (could see the arguments for 10 and 16 but am not the highest on either season due to the elbow injury / end of Celtics series and 15-16 being sort of a "get back into the groove of this GOAT offensive player" season for LeBron - especially in the RS).

From a regular season view, one could argue 67 Chamberlain has more impact (responsible for turning a good offensive cast into great one through efficient, shiftable scoring along with his best playmaking year & high assist volume without any "allegations" of hunting for assists. Furthermore, that could be near or at his best defensive season across his storied career).

From a playoff standpoint, I would give the edge to 09/12 LeBron with how valuable his ability to floor raise an offense through his "pick-your-poison" scoring and creation approach. LeBron also was a very engaged rebounder and defender in both years, that was when his motor was revving like a sports car to say the least. As shown by the Magic in 2009 and almost the entire slate of opponents faced in 2012, LeBron also played arguably the highest quality basketball of his career whilst facing top of the shelf caliber team defenses.

2013 was now this (very arguable) best regular season of all time, as LeBron looked like he mastered the game of basketball and had no exploitable hole. Playoffs was somewhat of a decline, but that could be attributed to situation and the fact that the Heatles were sacrificing LeBron ball possessions to a similar fundamentally "Wade-ball" heliocentric style. From like PBPStats combinations, some of the "LeBron on with Wade off" combinations especially in 2013 and 2014 are quite mind boggling from a individual and team number standpoint.

This is interwsring cause i actually think 2016 regular season is criminally underated due to "only" winning 56 games

By impact metrics (on-off family) it actually looks better thsn his miami years (miami lebron actually had the worse on-off seasons in his prime) and the cavs missed like 30 games of kyrie and were awful in lebron missed games

They and the thunder that year were kinda "secret" 60+ win level teams masquerading as 55 win teams due to health

[falcolombardi]

67 is so good that there is a case for zero, but gun to my head i would go with 3 i feel decently confident on (2009,2012,2016)

With cases for 2013 and 2017

2016 is basically russell's 1969 though

What do you mean?

[OhayoKD]

As one who is high on Wilt's apex personally, I would probably take 09/12/13 over (could see the arguments for 10 and 16 but am not the highest on either season due to the elbow injury / end of Celtics series and 15-16 being sort of a "get back into the groove of this GOAT offensive player" season for LeBron - especially in the RS).

From a regular season view, one could argue 67 Chamberlain has more impact (responsible for turning a good offensive cast into great one through efficient, shiftable scoring along with his best playmaking year & high assist volume without any "allegations" of hunting for assists. Furthermore, that could be near or at his best defensive season across his storied career).

From a playoff standpoint, I would give the edge to 09/12 LeBron with how valuable his ability to floor raise an offense through his "pick-your-poison" scoring and creation approach. LeBron also was a very engaged rebounder and defender in both years, that was when his motor was revving like a sports car to say the least. As shown by the Magic in 2009 and almost the entire slate of opponents faced in 2012, LeBron also played arguably the highest quality basketball of his career whilst facing top of the shelf caliber team defenses.

2013 was now this (very arguable) best regular season of all time, as LeBron looked like he mastered the game of basketball and had no exploitable hole. Playoffs was somewhat of a decline, but that could be attributed to situation and the fact that the Heatles were sacrificing LeBron ball possessions to a similar fundamentally "Wade-ball" heliocentric style. From like PBPStats combinations, some of the "LeBron on with Wade off" combinations especially in 2013 and 2014 are quite mind boggling from a individual and team number standpoint.

This is interwsring cause i actually think 2016 regular season is criminally underated due to "only" winning 56 games

By impact metrics (on-off family) it actually looks better thsn his miami years (miami lebron actually had the worse on-off seasons in his prime) and the cavs missed like 30 games of kyrie and were awful in lebron missed games

specifcally by RAPM and real world signals/wowy

[falcolombardi]

As one who is high on Wilt's apex personally, I would probably take 09/12/13 over (could see the arguments for 10 and 16 but am not the highest on either season due to the elbow injury / end of Celtics series and 15-16 being sort of a "get back into the groove of this GOAT offensive player" season for LeBron - especially in the RS).

From a regular season view, one could argue 67 Chamberlain has more impact (responsible for turning a good offensive cast into great one through efficient, shiftable scoring along with his best playmaking year & high assist volume without any "allegations" of hunting for assists. Furthermore, that could be near or at his best defensive season across his storied career).

From a playoff standpoint, I would give the edge to 09/12 LeBron with how valuable his ability to floor raise an offense through his "pick-your-poison" scoring and creation approach. LeBron also was a very engaged rebounder and defender in both years, that was when his motor was revving like a sports car to say the least. As shown by the Magic in 2009 and almost the entire slate of opponents faced in 2012, LeBron also played arguably the highest quality basketball of his career whilst facing top of the shelf caliber team defenses.

2013 was now this (very arguable) best regular season of all time, as LeBron looked like he mastered the game of basketball and had no exploitable hole. Playoffs was somewhat of a decline, but that could be attributed to situation and the fact that the Heatles were sacrificing LeBron ball possessions to a similar fundamentally "Wade-ball" heliocentric style. From like PBPStats combinations, some of the "LeBron on with Wade off" combinations especially in 2013 and 2014 are quite mind boggling from a individual and team number standpoint.

This is interwsring cause i actually think 2016 regular season is criminally underated due to "only" winning 56 games

By impact metrics (on-off family) it actually looks better thsn his miami years (miami lebron actually had the worse on-off seasons in his prime) and the cavs missed like 30 games of kyrie and were awful in lebron missed games

specifcally by RAPM and real world signals/wowy

What so you mean by real world signal?

[countryboy667]

None.

Titles schmitles. Basketball is a game won by TEAMS. Great players can have an inordinate influence, but none--including Lebron oe Wilt--wins one by themselves.

But one on one, purely as athletes, Wilt is in a category by himself. As great as Lebron is, it's still a mismatch in Wilt's favor.

With all due respect to Lebron, Wilt was better in almost every aspect of the game except, naturally 3 point %.

Seriously--if both were in their primes today, who would you pick for your franchise? A generational player like Lebron, or a guy who may have been the greatest all-around athlete of modern times, possibly of all time?

Not really pertinent, I know, but I've read almost every book about Wilt and the books he wrote himself. Wilt comes across as a better PERSON as well. I could see myself having an interesting conversation with Wilt--Lebron? Nope.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

2012, 2013, 2016.

Not as impressed as others with 67 Wilt based on his offensive shrinkage the playoffs to be honest.

30 FT% on the biggest stage in a NBA Finals is inexcusable.

[rk2023]

As one who is high on Wilt's apex personally, I would probably take 09/12/13 over (could see the arguments for 10 and 16 but am not the highest on either season due to the elbow injury / end of Celtics series and 15-16 being sort of a "get back into the groove of this GOAT offensive player" season for LeBron - especially in the RS).

From a regular season view, one could argue 67 Chamberlain has more impact (responsible for turning a good offensive cast into great one through efficient, shiftable scoring along with his best playmaking year & high assist volume without any "allegations" of hunting for assists. Furthermore, that could be near or at his best defensive season across his storied career).

From a playoff standpoint, I would give the edge to 09/12 LeBron with how valuable his ability to floor raise an offense through his "pick-your-poison" scoring and creation approach. LeBron also was a very engaged rebounder and defender in both years, that was when his motor was revving like a sports car to say the least. As shown by the Magic in 2009 and almost the entire slate of opponents faced in 2012, LeBron also played arguably the highest quality basketball of his career whilst facing top of the shelf caliber team defenses.

2013 was now this (very arguable) best regular season of all time, as LeBron looked like he mastered the game of basketball and had no exploitable hole. Playoffs was somewhat of a decline, but that could be attributed to situation and the fact that the Heatles were sacrificing LeBron ball possessions to a similar fundamentally "Wade-ball" heliocentric style. From like PBPStats combinations, some of the "LeBron on with Wade off" combinations especially in 2013 and 2014 are quite mind boggling from a individual and team number standpoint.

This is interwsring cause i actually think 2016 regular season is criminally underated due to "only" winning 56 games

By impact metrics (on-off family) it actually looks better thsn his miami years (miami lebron actually had the worse on-off seasons in his prime) and the cavs missed like 30 games of kyrie and were awful in lebron missed games

They and the thunder that year were kinda "secret" 60+ win level teams masquerading as 55 win teams due to health

Perhaps I am underrating 2016 somewhat, as conversations that i've had with many that view basketball in a way similar to me all seem to be higher on 2016. I might be looking too much in a vacuum rather than non-quantifiable defense (what makes 16 so special, to an extent) and the consideration the box score under-sells his playmaking. His impact relative to situation from 15-17 all remain very underrated.. as the Cavs hit some very impressive heights with Bron on -> pedestrian points as a whole without him.

[falcolombardi]

2012, 2013, 2016.

Not as impressed as others with 67 Wilt based on his offensive shrinkage the playoffs to be honest.

30 FT% on the biggest stage in a NBA Finals is inexcusable.

The free throw part is all him, but in fairness he kinda played bill russel and nate thurmomd those playoffs...

Like, it doesnt get any tougher than that

[Stan]

In this era? No offense to Wilt, but I'm taking '09, '12-'14, '16-'18 & '20 LeBron over any version of Wilt.

[migya]

None.

Chamberlain is the real GOAT, even Jordan's best isn't as high as his.

[Jaivl]

Seriously--if both were in their primes today, who would you pick for your franchise? A generational player like Lebron, or a guy who may have been the greatest all-around athlete of modern times, possibly of all time?

Weird question, I would take both at the same time.

Not really pertinent, I know, but I've read almost every book about Wilt and the books he wrote himself. Wilt comes across as a better PERSON as well.

I mean you'd guess so

[FuShengTHEGreat]

2012, 2013, 2016.

Not as impressed as others with 67 Wilt based on his offensive shrinkage the playoffs to be honest.

30 FT% on the biggest stage in a NBA Finals is inexcusable.

The free throw part is all him, but in fairness he kinda played bill russel and nate thurmomd those playoffs...

Like, it doesnt get any tougher than that

He was surrounded by more than enough offensive talent to offset that (3 future HOF starters on the right side of 30) and his offensive game still regressed. Fortunately the Warriors were a overmatched team that his putrid FT shooting didn't shoot his team in the foot like later times in his playoff career.

LBJs 2016 Finals performance was iconic and arguably the GOAT individual Finals performance. Wilts 67 Finals less so.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

None.

Titles schmitles. Basketball is a game won by TEAMS. Great players can have an inordinate influence, but none--including Lebron oe Wilt--wins one by themselves.

But one on one, purely as athletes, Wilt is in a category by himself. As great as Lebron is, it's still a mismatch in Wilt's favor.

With all due respect to Lebron, Wilt was better in almost every aspect of the game except, naturally 3 point %.

Seriously--if both were in their primes today, who would you pick for your franchise? A generational player like Lebron, or a guy who may have been the greatest all-around athlete of modern times, possibly of all time?

Not really pertinent, I know, but I've read almost every book about Wilt and the books he wrote himself. Wilt comes across as a better PERSON as well. I could see myself having an interesting conversation with Wilt--Lebron? Nope.

Wilt Chamberlain was a better FT shooter than Lebron as well huh?