RealGM

"Because there are no 4s."

Toine was a player ahead of his time, a big man who liked to hang out at the 3 point line and shoot 3's, a player with the physical tools to be a post player or slasher who never really utilized those skills, a decent defender out on the floor though not particularly in the post.

Would he be a decent player in today's league as he was in his day?

In his actual career, he was first an All-Star, later a bad meme. On the plus side, he averaged over 20 ppg 4 years in a row, would presumably shoot even more 3's today which would help his anemic ts% of .484, he was athletic, a good defender, and was a "5 tool player" to quote "Moneyball." On the down side, .484 is pretty close to unreedemable and his 3 point percentage was only .325 for his career.

How is Jabari Parker doing?

He would still be a meh player

Quite poor, as he was in his own time at least for someone playing so much and especially paid so much.

Positives (sometimes superficial)
high pick
big college
scored
big minutes so 20-10 adjacent
seemed multi-positional
showed some signs of being "skilled" (range, passing, recall one source positive on him on him fronting the post)

negatives
awful ts add, awful shot selection, some suggestions his post game was mothballed was it was underdeveloped and he was a poor finisher
shooting more threes at irl percentage barely moves it.
ft% way below par, arguably unacceptably low for a player of his archetype
for a volume scorer, poor ftr
generally poor defender (despite the offensive flaw on average teams weren't reckoned to be really harmed by his O - at least per this source https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/97-14-rapm-2)
granting other talented (big, offensive) forwards in the rotation (Nowtzki, Jamison) his impact on an elite offense in Dallas (e.g. https://www.cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/3813/onoff#tab-team_efficiency) doesn't bode well .. argues for him as an offensive ceiling capper.
my recollection is latterly weight, conditioning became an issue

He's not terrible in absolute terms but even inf the market wasn't so off on his worth I wonder if you could get buy-in in a more limited role (if he could indeed really be helpful on such) on a good team in his prime.

And the strengths are visible stuff but generally less meaningful and not stuff where he "put it all together" into a consistent effective package.

League leader in 3-point attempts
Top-5 in triple-doubles
Better Shimmy than Steph Curry, helps marketability

Easy max contract, perennial all-star player. If he is on a team with tremendous defense, he could make All-NBA Teams.

I'm very low on Antoine. He had 3 seasons under 30% from 3. his high was .369 than .367 than .365 everything in else was in the 34's and under career .325. he had 3 years with offensive ratings of 101 101 100 everything else was in the 90's and 1 89. 6 years with a negative offensive win share. And than you add poor defense poor rebounding lead NBA in turnovers one year. I can't personally make a positive case for him even in today's NBA.

A million MVPs in a row. He'd be the goat.

I might take him over Andrew Wiggins.

Still dogcrap.

His approach was interesting. His skills were not.

He wasn't very good, I dont think taking more 3 pointers does anything but just makes him not as inefficient.

He wouldn't be an efficient player at all.

Would he even be an NBA player? I don't quite remember if he was a decent defender, but offensively he shouldn't even be shooting a basketball at all. He had to be at least a shut down defender like GP2, Mikal Bridges, Jrue Holiday, prime Leonard for me to even consider him an NBA player. A better player to discuss is probably Ron Artest, a tank on the defensive end that has a questionable outside jumper.

The comment about "There are no 4's" is plain stupid and out of touch with reality.

He would be worse because the defensive assignments would be more difficult and he be defending more actions in a greater amount of space. His offense would still be trash but his defense will be worse.

Just because someone is a forward and they can shoot doesn't automatically they are some transcendental god in today's era. Giannis is still a better player than Tobias Harris. Guys like Jaren Jackson Jr and Evan Mobley can also shoot and do so much more. Of all the "wow imagine this stretch 4 in today's era" guys I think Rasheed Wallace is the one that really gets a huge lift. And Rashard Lewis I think coz of his length.

giordunk wrote:Just because someone is a forward and they can shoot doesn't automatically they are some transcendental god in today's era. Giannis is still a better player than Tobias Harris. Guys like Jaren Jackson Jr and Evan Mobley can also shoot and do so much more. Of all the "wow imagine this stretch 4 in today's era" guys I think Rasheed Wallace is the one that really gets a huge lift. And Rashard Lewis I think coz of his length.

Shard would definitely get a lift in value because he was quite good in his own time. Not a superstar or anything but still a prototypical stretch 4 type as we view them today.

Sheed... certainly had the skills. He wasn't an amazing 3pt shooter but 34% from 3 from a PF back then was intriguing. What he seemed to lack was the will to shoot enough to really impose himself as an offensive force, though, which makes me question how forceful he would be in today's league. Not from lack of ability, but from mentality. That wasn't really his style. He was never a 20 ppg scorer at his peak and only twice managed to put up 15+ FGA/g on a season. Yeah, Portland was pretty well-distributed, but they really could have used extra punch from him and he didn't really come through. It'd be a bit easier for him today with more freedom from 3, but still.