Does Barkley have the best scoring peak for PFs alltime

migya · Post #1 » by **migya** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:45 pm

Does Barkley have the best peak scoring for PFs alltime? He was among the best scorers of his era and one of the best post scorers ever.

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:00 pm

Short Answer: No.

Barkley was a terrific scorer/finisher but I feel like Dirk's scoring arsenal, specifically where on the court his typical touches and actions took place, provided more value to an offense.

Dutchball97 · Post #3 » by **Dutchball97** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:16 pm

I'm going to say yes as Barkley scored more on better efficiency than Dirk.

1993Playoffs · Post #4 » by **1993Playoffs** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:27 pm

2020 AD anyone?

70sFan · Post #5 » by **70sFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:39 pm

Probably it's between him and Dirk. HM to McAdoo, Giannis and Pettit, but these two are level ahead.

Owly · Post #6 » by **Owly** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:41 pm

First glance, numerically, probably.

Maybe you can argue some guys who aren't primarily identified with that position who played it in a year ('14 LeBron?) or older era before positional distinctions are clear, depending on how you deal with fewer/unknown minutes, smaller seasons, whether you think absolute (e.g. ts% difference of .05, even from using a league relative number) or percentage relative (e.g. TS+ of 129 versus 125) if you thought you could argue for say a Feerick or Sears as PF maybe they have a case. Even then though I'd think '88 Barkley seems like the favorite. Cutting off scoring might be somewhat artificial and maybe there are better or other complementary tools but certainly it's a monstrous TS Add season.

Skillset or playoffs (off different size, different opponent, different matchup samples) angles may differ.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #7 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:08 pm

1993Playoffs wrote:2020 AD anyone?

I'd say he's more of a C than a PF. It's at least 50/50. Barkley is almost exclusively a PF.

Colbinii · Post #8 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:09 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:I'm going to say yes as Barkley scored more on better efficiency than Dirk.

But is scoring simply points and efficiency or is it also how it opens up the floor and produces All-time Great Offensive Results?

AEnigma · Post #9 » by **AEnigma** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:17 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'm going to say yes as Barkley scored more on better efficiency than Dirk.

But is scoring simply points and efficiency or is it also how it opens up the floor and produces All-time Great Offensive Results?

There is also a difference in pace and in postseason production.

Barkley scored more raw points per game in a faster league, but Dirk had a much higher scoring rate. And in the postseason, you can get some pretty monstrous peak efficiency numbers out of him too while still at a comfortably higher scoring rate than Barkley.

70sFan · Post #10 » by **70sFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:18 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'm going to say yes as Barkley scored more on better efficiency than Dirk.

But is scoring simply points and efficiency or is it also how it opens up the floor and produces All-time Great Offensive Results?

Barkley scoring produced all-time great offensive results as well though.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #11 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:00 pm

No love for McHale here guys? I'd seriously consider having him and Dirk above but I think all 3 are close.

70sFan · Post #12 » by **70sFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:04 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:No love for McHale here guys? I'd seriously consider having him and Dirk above but I think all 3 are close.

Great mention, I forgot about him!

rk2023 · Post #13 » by **rk2023** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:57 pm

Assuming LeBron and Durant are omitted from this exercise, I think it is arguable with him and Dirk. Could go with 2020 AD in a vacuum, but across a more consistent and seasonal sample.. makes more sense to take the two I mentioned.

Post #14 » by **Snakebites** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:07 pm

Maybe. But I’d still rather have Dirk as a scorer.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #15 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:20 pm

I would go Dirk. I think the diversity if his attack in face-up situations, and needing to guard him all over the court, trumps Barkley's offensive rebounding advantage.

Looking at some playoff numbers:

Dirk (10-12)-Inflation Adjusted 30.2 pts per 75 (rTS% of 8.2%)

Dirk (09-11)-Inflation Adjusted 29.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9.2%)

Dirk (08-10)-Inflation Adjusted 28.4 pts per 75 (rTS% of 9.5%)

Barkley peaked at an Inflation adjusted 26.3 pts per 75 possessions in a 3-year PS sample on about 5.8%. If you go with his 87-89 run, he is able tog get his efficiency up to about 11.5%, but then his volume falls back to about 23.1 pts per 75 under the same guise.

I also think Barkley settling for 3-point jumpers that he wasn't very good at hurts him here, as his shot-selection is leaving me wanting more compared to Dirk.

CharityStripe34 · Post #16 » by **CharityStripe34** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:01 pm

Chuck was also an underrated passer. Incredibly fun player to watch.

SHAQ32 · Post #17 » by **SHAQ32** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:05 pm

I wouldn't argue against it.

G35 · Post #18 » by **G35** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:22 pm

The short answer is yes.....

migya · Post #19 » by **migya** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:21 am

I think is Malone.

Post #20 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:24 am

Colbinii wrote:Short Answer: No.

Barkley was a terrific scorer/finisher but I feel like Dirk's scoring arsenal, specifically where on the court his typical touches and actions took place, provided more value to an offense.

Hmmm, but is that the answer to the question? This is a little different than the Stoudemire thread in that it explicitly focuses on scoring instead of broader offensive impact.