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Defense wasn't stopping this go. Truly great, forgotten big. The inside play of past eras was a thing of beauty.

1990 seems like such a outlier to the rest of his career

He was pretty solid.....I guess.

Vid says GOAT SZN

prolific passer wrote:He was pretty solid.....I guess.

Who??

Jaivl wrote:Vid says GOAT SZN

Goat season is not literally arguing that it has a goat season chanc3 as much as it being that player best season

Jaivl wrote:Vid says GOAT SZN

Don't be jealous, maybe Rubio's comeback season will garner a GOAT vid.

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

Jaivl wrote:Vid says GOAT SZN

Don't be jealous, maybe Rubio's comeback season will garner a GOAT vid.

You mean WORLD CHAMPION AND MVP Ricard Rubio? Already better than E-"win"-G in my book.

Jaivl wrote:

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

Jaivl wrote:Vid says GOAT SZN

Don't be jealous, maybe Rubio's comeback season will garner a GOAT vid.

You mean WORLD CHAMPION AND MVP Ricard Rubio? Already better than E-"win"-G in my book.

JFC, I know you're joking, but could you not? lol

He was a beast for sure. I watched the video and one thing I noticed was that his standing reach looks impressive. He uses that reach well on both ends, as he seems to have evolved his post moves and jumper to basically release the ball about as high as he can without sacrificing on mechanics of the shot. Even 1990 Ewing pre-injury doesn't have an impressive vertical, but with that reach, he doesn't need it.

Good drop-step. He has that ugly rolling power hook. Was hitting the j out at 17-18 feet even back then. He definitely had more spring on those post moves than he would later. That's one difference I saw. He was able to split soft doubles with quicker drop-steps or power dribbles into open crevices more easily and then fluidly go up with a jumper or hook shot without spending too much time regathering. Kind of Dream-esque in those moves.

This version of Ewing had a pretty cool game. NYK had an absolute savage in the middle, and he led the way to huge success over the course of a decade.

1993Playoffs wrote:1990 seems like such a outlier to the rest of his career

He was great for years. 90 was his best but he was a superstar for over ten years.

Ewing was a great player, sometimes underappreciated in fact.

He is hurt by the fact that he's a center, which is by far the most stacked position ever historically. Even though Ewing is clearly a top 40 (probably top 30) player ever, among center he's probably "only" around 10th spot all-time and I wouldn't have his peak as top 10 centers peak either (he's close though).

Still, a great and underappreciated defender, who is often overrated offensively.

70sFan wrote:Ewing was a great player, sometimes underappreciated in fact.

He is hurt by the fact that he's a center, which is by far the most stacked position ever historically. Even though Ewing is clearly a top 40 (probably top 30) player ever, among center he's probably "only" around 10th spot all-time and I wouldn't have his peak as top 10 centers peak either (he's close though).

Still, a great and underappreciated defender, who is often overrated offensively.

I read Ewing not having a top 10 center peak and I thought that seems excessive but yeah you get there quickly. Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq and Hakeem, Moses and Robinson are very easy locks. Walton and Jokic (probably) aren't higher for career but also have comfortably better peaks. That's already 9 and there's still a guy like Mikan who probably deserves to be on there too for his relative dominance but he's not as constant on these lists due to being from the pre-shotclock era. I also know you have Duncan as a center but I omitted him because I have him as a 4.

And even if you have Duncan as a PF and don't rate players from the 40s/early 50s I'm not entirely sure Ewing would be ahead of guys like Lanier, Cowens, Gilmore, Mourning and Embiid for that last spot either.

Dutchball97 wrote:

70sFan wrote:Ewing was a great player, sometimes underappreciated in fact.

He is hurt by the fact that he's a center, which is by far the most stacked position ever historically. Even though Ewing is clearly a top 40 (probably top 30) player ever, among center he's probably "only" around 10th spot all-time and I wouldn't have his peak as top 10 centers peak either (he's close though).

Still, a great and underappreciated defender, who is often overrated offensively.

I read Ewing not having a top 10 center peak and I thought that seems excessive but yeah you get there quickly. Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq and Hakeem, Moses and Robinson are very easy locks. Walton and Jokic (probably) aren't higher for career but also have comfortably better peaks. That's already 9 and there's still a guy like Mikan who probably deserves to be on there too for his relative dominance but he's not as constant on these lists due to being from the pre-shotclock era. I also know you have Duncan as a center but I omitted him because I have him as a 4.

And even if you have Duncan as a PF and don't rate players from the 40s/early 50s I'm not entirely sure Ewing would be ahead of guys like Lanier, Cowens, Gilmore, Mourning and Embiid for that last spot either.

Yeah, here is my centers peak ranking in tiers (chronologically within one tier):

Tier X:

Mikan

GOAT Tier:

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq

All-time Tier:

Walton
Robinson
Jokic

MVP Tier:

Moses

Weak MVP Tier:

Reed
Lanier
Gilmore
Ewing
Howard
Embiid

Strong all-nba Tier:

Thurmond
Cowens
Mourning

70sFan wrote:Ewing was a great player, sometimes underappreciated in fact.

He is hurt by the fact that he's a center, which is by far the most stacked position ever historically. Even though Ewing is clearly a top 40 (probably top 30) player ever, among center he's probably "only" around 10th spot all-time and I wouldn't have his peak as top 10 centers peak either (he's close though).

Still, a great and underappreciated defender, who is often overrated offensively.

There are some great Centers and peaks. Ewing's 1990 season is definitely a case for top 10. He was just great. I think Jokic is definitely ahead of him in that but not so sure about Walton. Yea his defense and passing was great but Ewing was a great defender as well and his scoring is so much better. For career I think he's 8th behind Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson and Moses. He might be ahead of Moses slightly maybe. He top 30, maybe top 25 alltime.

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:Ewing was a great player, sometimes underappreciated in fact.

He is hurt by the fact that he's a center, which is by far the most stacked position ever historically. Even though Ewing is clearly a top 40 (probably top 30) player ever, among center he's probably "only" around 10th spot all-time and I wouldn't have his peak as top 10 centers peak either (he's close though).

Still, a great and underappreciated defender, who is often overrated offensively.

There are some great Centers and peaks. Ewing's 1990 season is definitely a case for top 10. He was just great. I think Jokic is definitely ahead of him in that but not so sure about Walton. Yea his defense and passing was great but Ewing was a great defender as well and his scoring is so much better. For career I think he's 8th behind Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson and Moses. He might be ahead of Moses slightly maybe. He top 30, maybe top 25 alltime.

Well, to me Walton was a bit better defender than Ewing and his offense was significantly more impactful than Ewing's, despite weaker scoring stats. He's on another tier to me, although his peak was quite brief.

For careers, I think I might have him inside top 10, but he's fighting for that position with Artis Gilmore who had an excellent case for a better career.

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:Ewing was a great player, sometimes underappreciated in fact.

He is hurt by the fact that he's a center, which is by far the most stacked position ever historically. Even though Ewing is clearly a top 40 (probably top 30) player ever, among center he's probably "only" around 10th spot all-time and I wouldn't have his peak as top 10 centers peak either (he's close though).

Still, a great and underappreciated defender, who is often overrated offensively.

Hey 70's I see u got Pat and Reed I the same tier. I'm a knick fan grew up with Pat but I really don't know much bout Reed Ive seen got a lot of bball knowledge of the og's. If your willing I'd love to hear your take on how Pat and Willis compare and contrast with each other.

dooki667 wrote:

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:

Hey 70's I see u got Pat and Reed I the same tier. I'm a knick fan grew up with Pat but I really don't know much bout Reed Ive seen got a lot of bball knowledge of the og's. If your willing I'd love to hear your take on how Pat and Willis compare and contrast with each other.

They have a few similarities, but also quite a few differences. Both felt very comfortable in midrange area and Reed actually might have a more complex midrange game off the dribble. Neither was a great passer, but I always felt that Reed's low volume assist numbers were strongly related to Knicks ball-movement offensive scheme. Ewing meanwhile was a very limited passer who often telegraph his passing decisions even seconds before making the pass. Although Reed wasn't a particuarily strong creator, I don't view similar concerns with him. When Ewing was still in his athletic prime, he was a very solid finisher inside but once he started to slow down, he became more reliant on his jumpshot and became less efficient. Reed was a better off-ball mover as well for what it's worth.

Both were very tough and physical post defenders. Physically, Ewing was bigger and (more importnantly) longer, which made him a significantly better rim protector. Reed's defense was focused more on horizontal game and he was surprisingly quick for his powerful build. Neither was a great rebounder, but they could boxout bigger centers just fine. Overall, I'd give Ewing a clear edge defensively for his rim protection and excellent BBIQ, but Reed was a very solid defender as well.

Overall, I think I'd take 1990 Ewing over any version of Reed, but it's a bit of an outlier compared to his other seasons. I think 1968-70 Reed is on similar level to 1992-93 Ewing and I might even prefer him in certain situations.

Jaivl wrote:

LukaTheGOAT wrote:

Jaivl wrote:Vid says GOAT SZN

Don't be jealous, maybe Rubio's comeback season will garner a GOAT vid.

You mean WORLD CHAMPION AND MVP Ricard Rubio? Already better than E-"win"-G in my book.

70sFan wrote:

dooki667 wrote:

70sFan wrote:

Hey 70's I see u got Pat and Reed I the same tier. I'm a knick fan grew up with Pat but I really don't know much bout Reed Ive seen got a lot of bball knowledge of the og's. If your willing I'd love to hear your take on how Pat and Willis compare and contrast with each other.

They have a few similarities, but also quite a few differences. Both felt very comfortable in midrange area and Reed actually might have a more complex midrange game off the dribble. Neither was a great passer, but I always felt that Reed's low volume assist numbers were strongly related to Knicks ball-movement offensive scheme. Ewing meanwhile was a very limited passer who often telegraph his passing decisions even seconds before making the pass. Although Reed wasn't a particuarily strong creator, I don't view similar concerns with him. When Ewing was still in his athletic prime, he was a very solid finisher inside but once he started to slow down, he became more reliant on his jumpshot and became less efficient. Reed was a better off-ball mover as well for what it's worth.

Both were very tough and physical post defenders. Physically, Ewing was bigger and (more importnantly) longer, which made him a significantly better rim protector. Reed's defense was focused more on horizontal game and he was surprisingly quick for his powerful build. Neither was a great rebounder, but they could boxout bigger centers just fine. Overall, I'd give Ewing a clear edge defensively for his rim protection and excellent BBIQ, but Reed was a very solid defender as well.

Overall, I think I'd take 1990 Ewing over any version of Reed, but it's a bit of an outlier compared to his other seasons. I think 1968-70 Reed is on similar level to 1992-93 Ewing and I might even prefer him in certain situations.

That was awesome and enlightening ty very much my friend