Who's better Defensively Right Now: KD or Jayson Tatum

[mdonnelly1989]

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[No-more-rings]

Oh jeez lol. Does this guy realize the Nets are considerably better on d with KD off the floor? All this video tells me is that KD is a good one on one defender. But this has been the case the past several years, KD’s defense gets overrated based on highlight plays and some blocks. Not a DPOY guy, and never resembled a top 10 type of defender in the league for that matter.

Beyond on that point, can anyone explain why the Celtics are only ranked 22nd in DRTG so far this year? It’s a sample size that may stabilize somewhat but is uncharacteristic to say the least.

[OhayoKD]

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kd has zero business in a dpoy conversation but i agree he's been solid there

[OhayoKD]

Oh jeez lol. Does this guy realize the Nets are considerably better on d with KD off the floor? All this video tells me is that KD is a good one on one defender. But this has been the case the past several years, KD’s defense gets overrated based on highlight plays and some blocks. Not a DPOY guy, and never resembled a top 10 type of defender in the league for that matter.

Beyond on that point, can anyone explain why the Celtics are only ranked 22nd in DRTG so far this year? It’s a sample size that may stabilize somewhat but is uncharacteristic to say the least.

so does how your defense look without you matter or not....

[No-more-rings]

Oh jeez lol. Does this guy realize the Nets are considerably better on d with KD off the floor? All this video tells me is that KD is a good one on one defender. But this has been the case the past several years, KD’s defense gets overrated based on highlight plays and some blocks. Not a DPOY guy, and never resembled a top 10 type of defender in the league for that matter.

Beyond on that point, can anyone explain why the Celtics are only ranked 22nd in DRTG so far this year? It’s a sample size that may stabilize somewhat but is uncharacteristic to say the least.

so does how your defense look without you matter or not....

?

[OhayoKD]

Oh jeez lol. Does this guy realize the Nets are considerably better on d with KD off the floor? All this video tells me is that KD is a good one on one defender. But this has been the case the past several years, KD’s defense gets overrated based on highlight plays and some blocks. Not a DPOY guy, and never resembled a top 10 type of defender in the league for that matter.

Beyond on that point, can anyone explain why the Celtics are only ranked 22nd in DRTG so far this year? It’s a sample size that may stabilize somewhat but is uncharacteristic to say the least.

so does how your defense look without you matter or not....

?

You made a point of insulting everyone who brought this up in the goat thread. But now, over a 10 game sample, you're using this as evidence against durant?

[No-more-rings]

so does how your defense look without you matter or not....

?

You made a point of insulting everyone who brought this up in the goat thread. But now, over a 10 game sample, you're using this as evidence against durant?

I don’t recall ever saying it was irrelevant, but if you’re going to bait and derail the thread by bringing up different players i’m not really interested in going there.

[Owly]

So
1) I'm not going to take a highlight video as much evidence of anything.
2) Especially one calling anyone the defensive player of the year after ... I don't know when this was made but at most 24 games 888 minutes.
3) Especially one calling an outsider to that discussion who is an established and older offensive superstar (i.e. likely has a "stanbase") that, unless there's extraordinary evidence and I think evidence goes in the other direction.

Fwiw, yes the Nets D has been worse, perhaps much worse depending on source, with him on: https://www.cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/984/onoff#tab-team_efficiency, https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2023/on-off/. He's the worst Nets high minute player in this regard so it doesn't, at first glance, look like a result of co-linearity.

Is the above strong evidence of him being awful, no. But it casts further doubt on the credibility of the source, and perhaps by proxy those willing to cite it. I'm not an expert, following closely or at the cutting edge on this stuff. Noise can be big in small samples. Things can move away from priors in small samples. But my impression is Tatum will have better priors numerically, he is more highly regarded on that end reputationally for what that's worth, and the numbers thus far tilt strongly towards reinforcing the prior point of view.

Net-wise box and impact-y, at first glance Durant still seems good and has stayed out on the floor, being the Reference total minutes leader thus far.

[OhayoKD]

You made a point of insulting everyone who brought this up in the goat thread. But now, over a 10 game sample, you're using this as evidence against durant?

I don’t recall ever saying it was irrelevant

Well you did. Super civil about it too

If you want to go that route, 2015 Lebron was even more tied to his team’s defence. 2013 Lebron’s DRAPM was also pretty pedestrian, and in the postseason there is really no conversation between the two, whether by impact of even just going by superficial box score production.

I'm not even sure how to respond to a comparison to 2015, other than...you're just trolling at this point and have nothing.

...

It just shows who actually followed what went on in some of these seasons, and who just reads off impact stats and calls a player better.

Literally an identical (well actually stronger since its corroborated with other stuff) point to yours and you called it "trolling" before implying people making it don't watch basketball.

if you’re going to bait and derail the thread by bringing up different players i’m not really interested in going there.

Boo, just coz you turn tail whenever the toxic little dumpster-fires you present as "discussion" get dunked on, doesn't mean we can't point out inconsistencies in your reasoning.

Pointing out how a team's defense is affected by a player's absence is trolling... except for when you do it.

[OhayoKD]

So
1) I'm not going to take a highlight video as much evidence of anything.
2) Especially one calling anyone the defensive player of the year after ... I don't know when this was made but at most 24 games 888 minutes.
3) Especially one calling an outsider to that discussion who is an established and older offensive superstar (i.e. likely has a "stanbase") that, unless there's extraordinary evidence and I think evidence goes in the other direction.

Fwiw, yes the Nets D has been worse, perhaps much worse depending on source, with him on: https://www.cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/984/onoff#tab-team_efficiency, https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2023/on-off/. He's the worst Nets high minute player in this regard so it doesn't, at first glance, look like a result of co-linearity.

Is the above strong evidence of him being awful, no. But it casts further doubt on the credibility of the source, and perhaps by proxy those willing to cite it. I'm not an expert, following closely or at the cutting edge on this stuff. Noise can be big in small samples. Things can move away from priors in small samples. But my impression is Tatum will have better priors numerically, he is more highly regarded on that end reputationally for what that's worth, and the numbers thus far tilt strongly towards reinforcing the prior point of view.

Net-wise box and impact-y, at first glance Durant still seems good and has stayed out on the floor, being the Reference total minutes leader thus far.

Yikes.

Tatum did pretty well defensively in the playoffs iirc