Replace Barkley w/ Lebron for Career how many titles?

[Matt15]

How many titles does Lebron win if he replaces Barkley for his career?

85 sixers-04 Lebron
86 sixers-05 Lebron
87 sixers-06 Lebron
88 sixers-07 Lebron
89 sixers-08 Lebron
90 sixers-09 Lebron
91 sixers-10 Lebron
92 sixers-11 Lebron
93 suns-12 Lebron
94 suns-13 Lebron
95 suns-14 Lebron
96 suns-15 Lebron
97 rockets-16 Lebron
98 rockets-17 Lebron
99 rockets-18 Lebron
00 rockets-19 Lebron

[colts18]

I think LeBron wins all of those Suns years. He definitely makes the finals with the 97 Rockets. It would be a tough battle vs. the 97 Bulls. The 98 Rockets would require a carry job.

None of Barkley's Sixers teams were good enough to win a title outside of his first two Dr. J/Moses years. Maybe 1985 is good enough to win, but that was teenage LeBron. LeBron takes a step up the next year however that's not good enough to beat an all-time great 1986 Celtics.

I say 4 titles with an outside shot at 5.

[magicman1978]

I think LeBron wins all of those Suns years. He definitely makes the finals with the 97 Rockets. It would be a tough battle vs. the 97 Bulls. The 98 Rockets would require a carry job.

None of Barkley's Sixers teams were good enough to win a title outside of his first two Dr. J/Moses years. Maybe 1985 is good enough to win, but that was teenage LeBron. LeBron takes a step up the next year however that's not good enough to beat an all-time great 1986 Celtics.

I say 4 titles with an outside shot at 5.

You think the 96 Suns could really beat the 96 Bulls?

[oaktownwarriors87]

What would LeBron's game be like had he grown up in the 60's and 70's? No 3 pointer, no AAU ball, 3 years of college ball and he grows up idolizing Kareem and Wilt instead of Magic and Jordan. I think it would have been good for him. That era may have been better for LeBron than this one.

I'm not a huge fan of any of the teams Charles played on, so it's difficult for me to say he would have won. It could be zero or it could be six. He could have been more impactful than Barkley, though. That's for sure.



The real question? How does Ohio State do with Tony Campbell and LeBron James!

[Cavsfansince84]

I think he wins with Phx in 93-95 or is at least a strong favorite. 96 I'd still give to the Bulls. 97 would be 60/40 but I'd favor 16 LeBron over 97 MJ. That's legitimate goat level play from LeBron going against somewhat below prime MJ and with Hakeem as his #2 who was very good in 97 playoffs. So they should be able to get it done in 97 and I'd give a decent chance of them winning in 98&99 with that version of LeBron and Pippen being added to the mix. So I'd say 3-6 titles is possible.

[AEnigma]

The 1993-95 Suns were already close title contenders (Finals then lost in seven to the Rockets twice). Upgrading Barkley into peak-ish Lebron is an easy three titles for me, plus 1997 where they were just a little short in the last year of what you could probably call Barkley’s extended prime.

Saying 1 or 2 honestly sounds like a troll vote to me in that light. Barkley was not close to Lebron as a player.

With that gap in mind, I also do not hate Lebron’s chances in 1990, 1998, or 1999 — although it would be an underdog situation for all three, so odds are he only gets one of those if any.

[No-more-rings]

The 1993-95 Suns were already close title contenders (Finals then lost in seven to the Rockets twice). Upgrading Barkley into peak-ish Lebron is an easy three titles for me, plus 1997 where they were just a little short in the last year of what you could probably call Barkley’s extended prime.

Saying 1 or 2 honestly sounds like a troll vote to me in that light. Barkley was not close to Lebron as a player.

With that gap in mind, I also do not hate Lebron’s chances in 1990, 1998, or 1999 — although it would be an underdog situation for all three, so odds are he only gets one of those if any.

Is 2014 Lebron enough to take the 95 suns from 19th on defense to presumably a top 10ish defense?

[AEnigma]

The 1993-95 Suns were already close title contenders (Finals then lost in seven to the Rockets twice). Upgrading Barkley into peak-ish Lebron is an easy three titles for me, plus 1997 where they were just a little short in the last year of what you could probably call Barkley’s extended prime.

Saying 1 or 2 honestly sounds like a troll vote to me in that light. Barkley was not close to Lebron as a player.

With that gap in mind, I also do not hate Lebron’s chances in 1990, 1998, or 1999 — although it would be an underdog situation for all three, so odds are he only gets one of those if any.

Is 2014 Lebron enough to take the 95 suns from 19th on defense to presumably a top 10ish defense?

The Suns had 59 wins and went the full seven games against the Rockets despite Barkley missing nine more games than 2014 Lebron did and being in diminished form for the postseason. With 2014 Lebron I would have the Suns as a pretty comfortable top overall seed and a pretty much inevitable Finals appearance, where they would be rightly favoured against the Magic even with the acknowledgment that Shaq would be a difficult matchup for their defence.

[No-more-rings]

The 1993-95 Suns were already close title contenders (Finals then lost in seven to the Rockets twice). Upgrading Barkley into peak-ish Lebron is an easy three titles for me, plus 1997 where they were just a little short in the last year of what you could probably call Barkley’s extended prime.

Saying 1 or 2 honestly sounds like a troll vote to me in that light. Barkley was not close to Lebron as a player.

With that gap in mind, I also do not hate Lebron’s chances in 1990, 1998, or 1999 — although it would be an underdog situation for all three, so odds are he only gets one of those if any.

Is 2014 Lebron enough to take the 95 suns from 19th on defense to presumably a top 10ish defense?

The Suns had 59 wins and went the full seven games against the Rockets despite Barkley missing nine more games than 2014 Lebron did and being in diminished form for the postseason. With 2014 Lebron I would have the Suns as a pretty comfortable top overall seed and a pretty much inevitable Finals appearance, where they would be rightly favoured against the Magic even with the acknowledgment that Shaq would be a difficult matchup for their defence.

Yeah I guess I forgot how close that Houston series was, hard to say Lebron doesn’t change the outcome. Interestingly though the Spurs could be a tougher matchup but Phoenix should still be favored to win that. Not sure it’s a slam dunk though.

[OhayoKD]

I think LeBron wins all of those Suns years. He definitely makes the finals with the 97 Rockets. It would be a tough battle vs. the 97 Bulls. The 98 Rockets would require a carry job.

None of Barkley's Sixers teams were good enough to win a title outside of his first two Dr. J/Moses years. Maybe 1985 is good enough to win, but that was teenage LeBron. LeBron takes a step up the next year however that's not good enough to beat an all-time great 1986 Celtics.

I say 4 titles with an outside shot at 5.

You think the 96 Suns could really beat the 96 Bulls?

Depends on how well you think he retains his value. With straight translation, considering that the bulls/jordan gave the sonics an opening, it's might be enough(effectively swept a 60 win team and pressed a 67 win team on his own) but I suppose one can never be certain about how that translates to another context. Off course just looking era to era, that iteration of lebron(diminished foot-speed/agiility) may benefit in terms of defensive value with less pace and space. Questions about the offense for sure(diminished driving game in a league with less space?) though straight up if lebron could up his effiency with scaled back volume he could improve as a relative shooting threat.

Obviously alot more confident if it was 2016 Lebron instead of 2015 as he already managed a harder version of what he'd need to do here with the dubs. Not to mention his offense coming roaring back.

For the other years, 1990-2009 and 1998-2017 provide pretty good chances for "dynasty-busting" pickups. Pistons didn't do nearly well with magic as a helio as they did vs bird and mj. Hard to envision rodman/laimbeer doing much against the giannis/magic hybrid that was 09 lebron and the defense should improve greatly.

Even in 98 I think Hakeem is a great co-star(fit is not ideal) and 2017 Lebron would be the best player in every series by a margin even without considering the benefits that come with transferring lebron to a less talented era.

[ShaqAttac]

The 1993-95 Suns were already close title contenders (Finals then lost in seven to the Rockets twice). Upgrading Barkley into peak-ish Lebron is an easy three titles for me, plus 1997 where they were just a little short in the last year of what you could probably call Barkley’s extended prime.

Saying 1 or 2 honestly sounds like a troll vote to me in that light. Barkley was not close to Lebron as a player.

With that gap in mind, I also do not hate Lebron’s chances in 1990, 1998, or 1999 — although it would be an underdog situation for all three, so odds are he only gets one of those if any.

how does lebron do against pistons? theyre one of the best defenses ever, right

[AEnigma]

The 1993-95 Suns were already close title contenders (Finals then lost in seven to the Rockets twice). Upgrading Barkley into peak-ish Lebron is an easy three titles for me, plus 1997 where they were just a little short in the last year of what you could probably call Barkley’s extended prime.

Saying 1 or 2 honestly sounds like a troll vote to me in that light. Barkley was not close to Lebron as a player.

With that gap in mind, I also do not hate Lebron’s chances in 1990, 1998, or 1999 — although it would be an underdog situation for all three, so odds are he only gets one of those if any.

how does lebron do against pistons? theyre one of the best defenses ever, right

I think LeBron wins all of those Suns years. He definitely makes the finals with the 97 Rockets. It would be a tough battle vs. the 97 Bulls. The 98 Rockets would require a carry job.

None of Barkley's Sixers teams were good enough to win a title outside of his first two Dr. J/Moses years. Maybe 1985 is good enough to win, but that was teenage LeBron. LeBron takes a step up the next year however that's not good enough to beat an all-time great 1986 Celtics.

I say 4 titles with an outside shot at 5.

You think the 96 Suns could really beat the 96 Bulls?

Depends on how well you think he retains his value. With straight translation, considering that the bulls/jordan gave the sonics an opening, it's might be enough(effectively swept a 60 win team and pressed a 67 win team on his own) but I suppose one can never be certain about how that translates to another context. Off course just looking era to era, that iteration of lebron(diminished foot-speed/agiility) may benefit in terms of defensive value with less pace and space. Questions about the offense for sure though straight up if lebron could up his effiency with scaled back volume he could improve as a relative shooting threat.

Obviously alot more confident if it was 2016 Lebron instead of 2015 as he already managed a harder version of what he'd need to do here with the dubs. Not to mention his offense coming roaring back.

For the other years, 1990-2009 and 1998-2017 provide pretty good chances for "dynasty-busting" pickups. Pistons didn't do nearly well with magic as a helio as they did vs bird and mj. Hard to envision rodman/laimbeer doing much against the giannis/magic hybrid that was 09 lebron and the defense should improve greatly.

Even in 98 I think Hakeem is a great co-star(fit is not ideal) and 2017 Lebron would be the best player in every series by a margin even without considering the benefits that come with transferring lebron to a less talented era.

The more I think about this, the more I think I was waaaay too conservative in my estimate of “4 plus maybe a fifth somewhere” (and the more it highlights how people voting “2” really are not bothering to think at all about the gaps between the two as players…).

Take 1990. Barkley had something like a +8 on/off. The 76ers won 53 games. Is peak regular season Lebron not boosting that to 60 wins? And at that point, they are hosting the winner of the Pistons and Bulls… I think that 76ers team overall matches up worse with the Bulls with the Pistons, but the Pistons can deal with the Bulls (who would also need to deal with the tough out Prince/Nance Cavaliers yet again). Then, without a bevy of shooters going on a hot streak, hard to see where the Pistons are generating sufficient offence to outpace a version of Lebron who basically set the record for every playoff box metric.

The Pistons were a great defence. In the absolute, maybe not better than the 2009 Magic, but matchups matter, and the 2009 Magic did not have any “Lebron stopper” close to Dennis Rodman, nor did they have the defensive frontcourt presence of the Celtics. That said, and all due respect to Dennis Rodman, but I do not see him shutting that level of performance down. You look at Jordan putting up 32 points a game on 56.6% efficiency, but he was doing that with a serious athletic disadvantage and as a true wing who could be variably guarded by Dumars when not guarded by Rodman. And Dumars’ ball denial approach does not work when Lebron is the lead ballhandler and the one making all the decisions.

The Bulls were pretty close to the road upset, and I do not see much of a case that 1990 Jordan was on the level of 2009 Lebron in anything other than the sense of, “What if I need somebody to play off of Scottie Pippen on offence.”Jordan averaged 10 free throws a game that series; Lebron averaged 16 a game against the Magic while also shooting more threes than Jordan ever did or would. And the 76ers, designed around Barkley, were a strong spacing team in their own right. There are no guarantees of course, but that looks increasingly more like a favoured title than a longshot one.

[70sFan]

I think he definitely wins some rings in 1993-97 period, probably 3 in 5 years is a good bet. 1993 Suns, 1994 Suns and 1997 Rockets have the best case in my opinion.

I don't see any rings before 1993 though. Sixers weren't good enough in 1988-92 period to compete for titles, though I suppose they'd do quite a bit better.

[OhayoKD]

I think he definitely wins some rings in 1993-97 period, probably 3 in 5 years is a good bet. 1993 Suns, 1994 Suns and 1997 Rockets have the best case in my opinion.

I don't see any rings before 1993 though. Sixers weren't good enough in 1988-92 period to compete for titles, though I suppose they'd do quite a bit better.

Eh. Sixers were a 53 win team in 1990. We've seen Lebron do bigger lifts and 09 is probably the one best suited for that kind of carry.

[70sFan]

I think he definitely wins some rings in 1993-97 period, probably 3 in 5 years is a good bet. 1993 Suns, 1994 Suns and 1997 Rockets have the best case in my opinion.

I don't see any rings before 1993 though. Sixers weren't good enough in 1988-92 period to compete for titles, though I suppose they'd do quite a bit better.

Eh. Suns were a 53 win team in 1990. We've seen Lebron do bigger lifts and 09 is probably the one best suited for that kind of carry.

Barkley played on Sixers though in 1990.

[OhayoKD]

I think he definitely wins some rings in 1993-97 period, probably 3 in 5 years is a good bet. 1993 Suns, 1994 Suns and 1997 Rockets have the best case in my opinion.

I don't see any rings before 1993 though. Sixers weren't good enough in 1988-92 period to compete for titles, though I suppose they'd do quite a bit better.

Eh. Suns were a 53 win team in 1990. We've seen Lebron do bigger lifts and 09 is probably the one best suited for that kind of carry.

Barkley played on Sixers though in 1990.

What do you think the sixers would have been without barkley? Would they be 20-win like the Bron-less cavs?

As it is. in 1990 the shooting variance that undid Cleveland in the ecf is much less of concern.

Sixers also had good spacing relative to era iirc. If lebron's impact translates, I think that might be a title favorite tbh. As it is the pistons needed 7 against the Bulls. Considering that they struggled the most against Magic Johnson defensively, I could see Lebron doing even better against them then he did against Dwight and the Magic.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Eh. Suns were a 53 win team in 1990. We've seen Lebron do bigger lifts and 09 is probably the one best suited for that kind of carry.

Barkley played on Sixers though in 1990.

What do you think the sixers would have been without barkley? Would they be 20-win like the Bron-less cavs?

As it is. in 1990 the shooting variance that undid Cleveland in the ecf is much less of concern.

Sixers also had good spacing relative to era iirc. If lebron's impact translates, I think that might be a title favorite tbh. As it is the pistons needed 7 against the Bulls. Considering that they struggled the most against Magic Johnson defensively, I could see Lebron doing even better against them then he did against Dwight and the Magic.

Dawg he’s saying that because you said the Suns record in 1990 lol

I know you meant to say the sixers record in 1990

[OhayoKD]

Barkley played on Sixers though in 1990.

What do you think the sixers would have been without barkley? Would they be 20-win like the Bron-less cavs?

As it is. in 1990 the shooting variance that undid Cleveland in the ecf is much less of concern.

Sixers also had good spacing relative to era iirc. If lebron's impact translates, I think that might be a title favorite tbh. As it is the pistons needed 7 against the Bulls. Considering that they struggled the most against Magic Johnson defensively, I could see Lebron doing even better against them then he did against Dwight and the Magic.

Dawg he’s saying that because you said the Suns record in 1990 lol

I know you meant to say the sixers record in 1990

Oops

[70sFan]

Eh. Suns were a 53 win team in 1990. We've seen Lebron do bigger lifts and 09 is probably the one best suited for that kind of carry.

Barkley played on Sixers though in 1990.

What do you think the sixers would have been without barkley? Would they be 20-win like the Bron-less cavs?

As it is. in 1990 the shooting variance that undid Cleveland in the ecf is much less of concern.

Sixers also had good spacing relative to era iirc. If lebron's impact translates, I think that might be a title favorite tbh. As it is the pistons needed 7 against the Bulls. Considering that they struggled the most against Magic Johnson defensively, I could see Lebron doing even better against them then he did against Dwight and the Magic.

I don't know, Sixers doesn't look like a decent team without Barkely. Maybe I am underestimate James impact, but beating Pistons and Blazers is extremely tough task. I definitely wouldn't view them as title favorites.

[magicman1978]

I think LeBron wins all of those Suns years. He definitely makes the finals with the 97 Rockets. It would be a tough battle vs. the 97 Bulls. The 98 Rockets would require a carry job.

None of Barkley's Sixers teams were good enough to win a title outside of his first two Dr. J/Moses years. Maybe 1985 is good enough to win, but that was teenage LeBron. LeBron takes a step up the next year however that's not good enough to beat an all-time great 1986 Celtics.

I say 4 titles with an outside shot at 5.

You think the 96 Suns could really beat the 96 Bulls?

Depends on how well you think he retains his value. With straight translation, considering that the bulls/jordan gave the sonics an opening, it's might be enough(effectively swept a 60 win team and pressed a 67 win team on his own) but I suppose one can never be certain about how that translates to another context. Off course just looking era to era, that iteration of lebron(diminished foot-speed/agiility) may benefit in terms of defensive value with less pace and space. Questions about the offense for sure(diminished driving game in a league with less space?) though straight up if lebron could up his effiency with scaled back volume he could improve as a relative shooting threat.

Obviously alot more confident if it was 2016 Lebron instead of 2015 as he already managed a harder version of what he'd need to do here with the dubs. Not to mention his offense coming roaring back.

The Suns without Barkley that year would have been about a 30 win team at best. I just don't see how 15 LeBron (who wasn't even 100% healthy) could have led them over a 72 win Bulls Team. 97 with the Rockets I can see.