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Where would Jokic rank in the 90’s among centers and overall?

2nd/3rd best player behind Jordan and maybe Hakeem, the latter depending on circumstances eg. support etc.

3rd-5th best players of the 90s are Barkley, Malone and DRob in whatever order and considering their defensive (Chuck) and offensive limitations (Karl and Robinson), I don't think you can highlight that much Jokic's defense, especially in 90s I don't think it would be such liability like it is occasionally.

Jokic is both amazing fit to weak teams as a floor raiser and to very strong teams as a ceiling raiser, so he'd have been great in Spurs (average support that needs to be elavated) and Jazz or Suns (strong support to fit in with his passing; with guard perfectly fitting his game like Stockton did with Malone, not necessarily Stockton himself), so I don't think it would've been a factor neither.

His consistency is also amazing, so that's another plus here.

He wouldn't be as effective with the more physicality, scoring near the basket and possibly less spacing. His defense is a big factor with scoring being closer to the basket. He'd have to shoot more with the better rim protection and bigger defenders. He reminds me a bit of Daugherty well could pass quite well, had some nice offensive silks and wasn't a shotblocker. Wouldn't be top 5 most years.

migya wrote:He wouldn't be as effective with the more physicality, scoring near the basket and possibly less spacing.

That's definitely wrong.

Questions about his defense in that era, that's at least some kind of concern. There are other things which could be done about that depending on what his perimeter partner looked like and what the coaching situation was like and all that... but that's as true of him as anyone. He isn't Ewing on D, for sure, but he is also a lot better on O, so there's some give and take, again.

tsherkin wrote:

migya wrote:He wouldn't be as effective with the more physicality, scoring near the basket and possibly less spacing.

That's definitely wrong.

Questions about his defense in that era, that's at least some kind of concern. There are other things which could be done about that depending on what his perimeter partner looked like and what the coaching situation was like and all that... but that's as true of him as anyone. He isn't Ewing on D, for sure, but he is also a lot better on O, so there's some give and take, again.

With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

He, Hakeem, Shaq and Robinson would vye for best Center in the NBA depending on the season. It was a dogfight to be the best Center in any given year from 92-96.

migya wrote:With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

migya wrote:He reminds me a bit of Daugherty well could pass quite well, had some nice offensive silks and wasn't a shotblocker. Wouldn't be top 5 most years.

Jokic scores 37 pts/100 possessions on +11rTS - Hakeem in his best season volume-wise scored 36pts/100 possessions on +2rTS.

While I'm not comparing 1 to 1 these numbers, even if his above-average efficiency gets cut by half, he's still deadly efficient big man, and scoring isn't even his biggest asset.

Some people, I guess, need more time to accept degree of historic things that Jokic has been doing past three seasons: while playing in non-big market, non-contending team, on January he's a main candidate to get 3rd MVP in a row at age 28 (!!!), we're talking about all-time great player, not ''he wouldn't stand 90s physicality, not top5 material in most years'' type of player, lol.

Very, very high

The Master wrote:

migya wrote:With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

migya wrote:He reminds me a bit of Daugherty well could pass quite well, had some nice offensive silks and wasn't a shotblocker. Wouldn't be top 5 most years.

Jokic scores 37 pts/100 possessions on +11rTS - Hakeem in his best season volume-wise scored 36pts/100 possessions on +2rTS.

While I'm not comparing 1 to 1 these numbers, even if his above-average efficiency gets cut by half, he's still deadly efficient big man, and scoring isn't even his biggest asset.

Some people, I guess, need more time to accept degree of historic things that Jokic has been doing past three seasons: while playing in non-big market, non-contending team, on January he's a main candidate to get 3rd MVP in a row at age 28 (!!!), we're talking about all-time great player, not ''he wouldn't stand 90s physicality, not top5 material in most years'' type of player, lol.

Jokic is an alltime great already and I think by far the best Center since Shaq and Duncan. He is one of the most crafty and intelligent players I've seen. In context, he scores alot of his near basket points because of his height compared to his opponents. His not getting many of those barely jump 5fters against the great defensive bigs of that era. You have to see that the 90s had many of the alltime star bigs, so there's much competition.

Replacing Daugherty on the early 90s Cavs would be the ideal setting for him. He'd have some shooters, defenders and talent around him to cover his weaknesses and take to his strengths.

Depending on a season, candidate for the MVP, like today. I wouldn't have him ahead of early 1990s Jordan or peak Hakeem personally. I also would consider peak Robinson over him, but that's it. He's definitely ahead of peak Barkley, Malone or Ewing.

migya wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

migya wrote:He wouldn't be as effective with the more physicality, scoring near the basket and possibly less spacing.

That's definitely wrong.

Questions about his defense in that era, that's at least some kind of concern. There are other things which could be done about that depending on what his perimeter partner looked like and what the coaching situation was like and all that... but that's as true of him as anyone. He isn't Ewing on D, for sure, but he is also a lot better on O, so there's some give and take, again.

With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

You're doing it wrong - Jokic is bigger and more powerful than Ewing, he used more physical moves than Ewing around the basket (Ewing didn't have much of a hook, he used fadeaways a lot) and Jokic has much better jumpshot than Ewing as well. Jokic crushes Ewing offensively.

migya wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

migya wrote:He wouldn't be as effective with the more physicality, scoring near the basket and possibly less spacing.

That's definitely wrong.

Questions about his defense in that era, that's at least some kind of concern. There are other things which could be done about that depending on what his perimeter partner looked like and what the coaching situation was like and all that... but that's as true of him as anyone. He isn't Ewing on D, for sure, but he is also a lot better on O, so there's some give and take, again.

With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

Jokic is listed at 284 and has one of the best touches if not the best touch of any center ever but go off bruh

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:

tsherkin wrote:
That's definitely wrong.

Questions about his defense in that era, that's at least some kind of concern. There are other things which could be done about that depending on what his perimeter partner looked like and what the coaching situation was like and all that... but that's as true of him as anyone. He isn't Ewing on D, for sure, but he is also a lot better on O, so there's some give and take, again.

With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

You're doing it wrong - Jokic is bigger and more powerful than Ewing, he used more physical moves than Ewing around the basket (Ewing didn't have much of a hook, he used fadeaways a lot) and Jokic has much better jumpshot than Ewing as well. Jokic crushes Ewing offensively.

No your wrong. Ewing used the hook well, you should watch some footage.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

migya wrote:

tsherkin wrote:
That's definitely wrong.

Questions about his defense in that era, that's at least some kind of concern. There are other things which could be done about that depending on what his perimeter partner looked like and what the coaching situation was like and all that... but that's as true of him as anyone. He isn't Ewing on D, for sure, but he is also a lot better on O, so there's some give and take, again.

With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

Jokic is listed at 284 and has one of the best touches if not the best touch of any center ever but go off bruh

Do you know how much he weighs this season? I was thinking about that when watching DEN vs. BOS and seeing him against Boston's frontcourt.

ronnymac2 wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

migya wrote:
With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

Jokic is listed at 284 and has one of the best touches if not the best touch of any center ever but go off bruh

Do you know how much he weighs this season? I was thinking about that when watching DEN vs. BOS and seeing him against Boston's frontcourt.

He says he likes playing at 280 ish so I’d assume that’s where he is right now, Morris said he was 300+ awhile go and he slimmed down since I think

ronnymac2 wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

migya wrote:
With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

Jokic is listed at 284 and has one of the best touches if not the best touch of any center ever but go off bruh

Do you know how much he weighs this season? I was thinking about that when watching DEN vs. BOS and seeing him against Boston's frontcourt.

That's not relevant much. He would get good positioning but he ddoesn't get lift near the basket which is important against tall players.

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:
With the allowance for physical defense it restricts much post finesse skill, which Jokic has. Ewing was a bruiser that used the hook and physical moves near the basket while having a very good jump shot. Jokic's passing would be impactful but he'd be less effective near the basket and would have to definitely shoot more.

You're doing it wrong - Jokic is bigger and more powerful than Ewing, he used more physical moves than Ewing around the basket (Ewing didn't have much of a hook, he used fadeaways a lot) and Jokic has much better jumpshot than Ewing as well. Jokic crushes Ewing offensively.

No your wrong. Ewing used the hook well, you should watch some footage.

Regardless of what Ewing's moves were, he was a +6% rTS scorer on 32 PP100 in his best years. Jokic over the last 2 years is scoring 38 PP100 on +10% rTS. He's just in a different class as a scorer than Ewing ever was, not to mention playmaking which is a Grand Canyon-sized chasm.

Peregrine01 wrote:

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:You're doing it wrong - Jokic is bigger and more powerful than Ewing, he used more physical moves than Ewing around the basket (Ewing didn't have much of a hook, he used fadeaways a lot) and Jokic has much better jumpshot than Ewing as well. Jokic crushes Ewing offensively.

No your wrong. Ewing used the hook well, you should watch some footage.

Regardless of what Ewing's moves were, he was a +6% rTS scorer on 32 PP100 in his best years. Jokic over the last 2 years is scoring 38 PP100 on +10% rTS. He's just in a different class as a scorer than Ewing ever was, not to mention playmaking which is a Grand Canyon-sized chasm.

Again, different setting. Ewing was scoring in the physical, grinding environment and flourishing. Jokic wouldn't score like he does now. Defense is a huge difference, more than passing.

migya wrote:

ronnymac2 wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Jokic is listed at 284 and has one of the best touches if not the best touch of any center ever but go off bruh

Do you know how much he weighs this season? I was thinking about that when watching DEN vs. BOS and seeing him against Boston's frontcourt.

That's not relevant much. He would get good positioning but he ddoesn't get lift near the basket which is important against tall players.

Jokic needs to jump higher to score is such a bad take I don’t even know how to approach it, these past few takes have been some of the worst I’ve ever seen in this site by one user

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

migya wrote:

ronnymac2 wrote:
Do you know how much he weighs this season? I was thinking about that when watching DEN vs. BOS and seeing him against Boston's frontcourt.

That's not relevant much. He would get good positioning but he ddoesn't get lift near the basket which is important against tall players.

Jokic needs to jump higher to score is such a bad take I don’t even know how to approach it, these past few takes have been some of the worst I’ve ever seen in this site by one user

I wrote his scoring near the basket. He gets these little shots from 5ft that he wouldn't get in a more physical defensive setting with taller and better defenders.