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Who do you have ranked higher on your all-time list?

I generally rank Bird a little higher on my ATG list than Kobe.

Leaning kobe. I dont love bird longevity/durability even if he likely peaked higher

Depends on how much you weight prime, peak, and longevity as well as adjust for eras. I would give Bird a sure-fire peak edge, prime I think is somewhat closer (as one who, in hindsight, would vote Kobe higher than his placement in the Greatest Peaks Project), while Kobe has the sure-fire longevity edge.

All in all, think they're both in the 9-13 range all time with (per my criteria) Magic, Garnett, West.

Peak wise I lean bird to Kobe (I have both 8-13ish but usually 8-9 for bird and 10-11 for kobe) prime I’d prolly take 01-11 kobe over 80-88 bird but it’s pretty much interchangeable

Longevity wise I think kobe is like extremely clear of bird

Overall I got Kobe clearly ahead of bird (won’t say the rankings I’ll save that for the t25 write ups).

kobe fo sho

Bird, easily.

Most Top 5 Finishes in MVP Voting:

Over a 9 year stretch, Larry Bird won 3 MVPs, came in 2nd 4 times, 3rd once and 4th once. Sheer dominance.

Larry Bird: 88(2), 87(3), 86(1), 85(1), 84(1), 83(2), 82(2), 81(2), 80(4) = 9 Top 5 Finishes (3 MVPs) (FOUR 2nd places)

Kobe: Kobe Bryant: 13(5), 12(4), 11(4), 10(3), 09(2), 08(1), 07(3), 06(4), 04(5), 03(3), 02(5) = 11 Top 5 Finishes (1 MVP, 1 2nd place finish)

Clearly Bird. Was longevity does Kobe have, his peak is 2000-13, 1039gms, Bird is 1980-92, 897gms. Numbers favor Bird in most areas.

migya wrote:Clearly Bird. Was longevity does Kobe have, his peak is 2000-13, 1039gms, Bird is 1980-92, 897gms. Numbers favor Bird in most areas.

Bird is well past his prime after 1988.

I get the longevity edge for Kobe, but I feel Bird was just simply better at least for the regular season. Bird has 2 playoff runs that are better than Kobe’s best too.

HeartBreakKid wrote:

migya wrote:Clearly Bird. Was longevity does Kobe have, his peak is 2000-13, 1039gms, Bird is 1980-92, 897gms. Numbers favor Bird in most areas.

Bird is well past his prime after 1988.

I do think his 90-92 seasons get a bit underrated. 91&92 he fell off a lot in the playoffs but all 3 years he was top 15 in mvp voting despite missing a lot of games the last two years. So I think at least 90 was sort of close to a prime year. Probably equal to 80-83 versions minus defense. 91/92 he had fallen off but still probably above all star level when he could play.

I give Bird a slight edge due to the way his passing affected the game, but it’s extremely close. I don’t have a strong definitive opinion one way or the other. I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.

iggymcfrack wrote:I give Bird a slight edge due to the way his passing affected the game, but it’s extremely close. I don’t have a strong definitive opinion one way or the other. I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.

Why do you have Bird as low as #19 all time? That's nuts. This entire Forum has never ranked him lower than 10th all time, thousands of votes cast across 15 years.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HWQLTqFcJdJJNvMFDAwikJXujuh75uajUPrE0eF2XXc/edit#gid=0

Who are your top 20 all time, in order?

ty 4191 wrote:

iggymcfrack wrote:I give Bird a slight edge due to the way his passing affected the game, but it’s extremely close. I don’t have a strong definitive opinion one way or the other. I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.

Why do you have Bird as low as #19 all time? That's nuts. This entire Forum has never ranked him lower than 10th all time, thousands of votes cast across 15 years.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HWQLTqFcJdJJNvMFDAwikJXujuh75uajUPrE0eF2XXc/edit#gid=0

Who are your top 20 all time, in order?

Maybe ask him for his ranking before calling his position nuts? Perhaps ask what his primary criteria are, yeah?

EDIT: It IS a highly-atypical ranking, of course, so I am very curious to see the why as well.

tsherkin wrote:I generally rank Bird a little higher on my ATG list than Kobe.

Why?

iggymcfrack wrote:I give Bird a slight edge due to the way his passing affected the game, but it’s extremely close. I don’t have a strong definitive opinion one way or the other. I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.

Having live and bird 19 and 20 on an all time list is absolutely insane I can’t lie

Who are the 18 players ahead of them and why do you think so?

ceoofkobefans wrote:

tsherkin wrote:I generally rank Bird a little higher on my ATG list than Kobe.

Why?

A fair question!

Some of it is accolades. Some of it is commitment to a better, team-oriented style of play while he had the right team around him. Some of it is statistical differences. I think prime and peak suit Bird more than Kobe, though Bryant has an obvious longevity advantage.

Kobe was very good, but I think people got a little wrapped up in the Jordan comparisons and in the narrative of him as the volume-scoring gunslinger type, yeah? The old-heads liked him because he played the old way, in essence, and of course the kids liked him because he was good at crossovers and putting up sexy PPG. And of course, the truth is that he was very good, so describing him as I've just done isn't really sufficient, but I don't have the patience for an essay atm, heh. I typically have Kobe somewhere around 10th all-time. Anywhere from 9-12, really. I just think Bird did enough more that it matters by a couple spots.

tsherkin wrote: I typically have Kobe somewhere around 10th all-time. Anywhere from 9-12, really. I just think Bird did enough more that it matters by a couple spots.

Which 8 players are clearly better to you?

I think I had Kobe a hair ahead at last check, both in my third tier in the 9-15 range (I checked, 11 and 12 at the time).

migya wrote:Clearly Bird. Was longevity does Kobe have, his peak is 2000-13, 1039gms, Bird is 1980-92, 897gms. Numbers favor Bird in most areas.

What would be your top 10 may I ask? Have seen you argue for a wide range of players on here whether it's peak or longevity, so would appreciate the intel.