RealGM

offensive bigs who dont d that much. whose better?

I think Shaq is the safe answer here. Relative to era, I do think Shaq had a more notable impact on defense, even in the PS where teams like the Kings could at times exploit his pick and roll defense. The way the game was played then was less stretched out and therefore harder to get a guy like Shaq on an island.

I also think Shaq was a better man defender, as well.
for all his warts as a defender, Shaq WAS a strong man defender. From 1998-2003, All-Star centers scored shot 3.6 TS% when they faced him versus how they did against the rest of the league. For comparison, this is similar to to how Dikembe Mutombo performed against All-Star centers during his defensive prime from 1992-98 (Ben Taylor, Backpicks Write-Up on Shaq). In Shaq's era, defending post-ups were much more common and therefore I believe a bigger value add thsn they are now.

While I do hold Jokic in higher regard offensively, I am hesitant to say his total impact matches Shaq's in the total area come PS time because I still want to see his defense be stronger than I've seen as while it is early, I do believe his defense weights that his on/off samples so far in his PS career.

Fun Fact- Shaq has the #1 8 year on/off span in the playoffs since 1997.

LukaTheGOAT wrote:I think Shaq is the safe answer here. Relative to era, I do think Shaq had a more notable impact on defense, even in the PS where teams like the Kings could at times exploit his pick and roll defense. The way the game was played then was less stretched out and therefore harder to get a guy like Shaq on an island.

I also think Shaq was a better man defender, as well.
for all his warts as a defender, Shaq WAS a strong man defender. From 1998-2003, All-Star centers scored shot 3.6 TS% when they faced him versus how they did against the rest of the league. For comparison, this is similar to to how Dikembe Mutombo performed against All-Star centers during his defensive prime from 1992-98 (Ben Taylor, Backpicks Write-Up on Shaq). In Shaq's era, defending post-ups were much more common and therefore I believe a bigger value add thsn they are now.

While I do hold Jokic in higher regard offensivel, I am hesitant to say his total impact matches Shaq's in the total area come PS time because I still want to see his defense be stronger than I've seen as while it is early, I do believe his defense weights that his on/off samples so far in his PS career.

Fun Fact- Shaq has the #1 8 year on/off span in the playoffs since 1997.

being comped to mutombo is pretty cool

I think Shaq reached such a level during his peak that Jokic needs a great and deep playoff run to match it.
I do believe though that Jokic's offence is now at a higher level, even relative to era. He can do so many more things, he can enhance the performance of literally any player, he doesn't need an entry pass to be involved.
But relative to era Shaq was clearly a more impactful defender, even if he had similar weaknesses that just were not as severely exploited, at the time. But with less help from refs a less choking at the line from the Kings they could have costed him the threepeat. I don't think Shaq would be a much better defender than Jokic, today.
But relative to era, going with Shaq.

Just one thing that I repeat every time: Shaq has been by far the luckiest big man in terms of perimeter sidekick. He went from Penny directly to Kobe and then Wade, since his second season to the end of his prime. That's an extreme luxury, given how big men with no perimeter game can be more difficult to involve during crunch time.