RealGM

Where would '08 Kobe rank in today's league overall?

Regular season, 5th after jokic, luka,giannis and curry

Playoffs 2nd below giannis, maybe below curry and jokic too at 4th

Dont trust embiid health in the playoffs

Probably 3rd or 4th. Likely behind Giannis and Jokic, has a case vs Curry.

Surprised by the poll results so far.

I voted top 3. I could see a case as high as 2nd to Jokic, but could also see as low as 5th to Curry/Luka/Giannis, most others its tough for me to see a case for, though maybe some would prefer Tatum/KD/Embiid.

I voted Top 5. He could rise depending on how the playoffs shake out for the superstars of the league.

Probably top 3, I feel good with that answer. I think Kobe is pretty portable between post 3-P line eras / likely to retain value. With the league becoming more efficient, I wonder if Kobe changes his shot-diet and alters some of the long mid-ranges into 3-pointers in a trend that catches up with league average efficiency.

I wonder how the hybrid of on/off-ball "Kobe ball" utilized by the late 2000-s Lakers would fare in an NBA that's more spaced out for 3 point shooters and motion getting towards the basket (as it pertains to his individual production and global offensive impact). As a side note, i'm very keen on his turnover economy playing the role as that sort of engine.

Ben / elgee does a great job highlighting some of these in this video His playoff "rise" is a major point of emphasis in it, and a reason why I feel regardless of RS - he would edge out Giannis and Jokic - in my opinion at least - in a peaks / top-season ranking project (would probably have him lower ends of top 15).

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Outside of the top 10. Defense was a liability and his game wouldn’t age well.

falcolombardi wrote:Regular season, 5th after jokic, luka,giannis and curry

Playoffs 2nd below giannis, maybe below curry and jokic too at 4th

Dont trust embiid health in the playoffs

Game is 100-100 with 1 minute left. You can't tell me you'd rather have Curry than Kobe. Add in the difference in 1 on 1 defense, scoring arsenal, and clutch ability I can't find myself putting Curry over Kobe.

Its really sad people are forgetting how great Kobe truly was. 08 Kobe would be top 3 today.

ceiling raiser wrote:Outside of the top 10. Defense was a liability and his game wouldn’t age well.

Uh what? Neither of those things are true.

XTC wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:Regular season, 5th after jokic, luka,giannis and curry

Playoffs 2nd below giannis, maybe below curry and jokic too at 4th

Dont trust embiid health in the playoffs

Game is 100-100 with 1 minute left. You can't tell me you'd rather have Curry than Kobe. Add in the difference in 1 on 1 defense, scoring arsenal, and clutch ability I can't find myself putting Curry over Kobe.

Its really sad people are forgetting how great Kobe truly was. 08 Kobe would be top 3 today.

Even if you want to argue that Kobe should be ahead of current Steph(which is reasonable to me) I don't think that the scenario you used as proof of that holds that much water. If you ran some kind of simulation with each player 100 times with different opponents I think Kobe's team probably wins 56 times and Steph's wins like 54 times. It's not a major difference or definitive reason for ranking Kobe above him. Steph's team might even win more often. Kobe threw up too many bad or forced shots in those kinds of situations tbh.

XTC wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:Regular season, 5th after jokic, luka,giannis and curry

Playoffs 2nd below giannis, maybe below curry and jokic too at 4th

Dont trust embiid health in the playoffs

Game is 100-100 with 1 minute left. You can't tell me you'd rather have Curry than Kobe. Add in the difference in 1 on 1 defense, scoring arsenal, and clutch ability I can't find myself putting Curry over Kobe.

Its really sad people are forgetting how great Kobe truly was. 08 Kobe would be top 3 today.

No question. And the reason why I can take Curry is because I’m NOT forgetting how inconsistent and unreliable Kobe was. People have been overrating him like hell since he died.

ceiling raiser wrote:

XTC wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:Regular season, 5th after jokic, luka,giannis and curry

Playoffs 2nd below giannis, maybe below curry and jokic too at 4th

Dont trust embiid health in the playoffs

Game is 100-100 with 1 minute left. You can't tell me you'd rather have Curry than Kobe. Add in the difference in 1 on 1 defense, scoring arsenal, and clutch ability I can't find myself putting Curry over Kobe.

Its really sad people are forgetting how great Kobe truly was. 08 Kobe would be top 3 today.

No question. And the reason why I can take Curry is because I’m NOT forgetting how inconsistent and unreliable Kobe was. People have been overrating him like hell since he died.

If you’re going to keep making these sort of outrageous claims you may want to explain what exactly you’re talking about.

No-more-rings wrote:
If you’re going to keep making these sort of outrageous claims you may want to explain what exactly you’re talking about.

I think there's some truth to what he's saying and its due in part to him dying so shortly after retirement because usually when an athlete dies there's a period where they are remembered and thought of more fondly then when they were alive. As an example, I recall espn doing a huge top 100 project for the nba with like 30 or 50 experts involved from all across the nba and media and Kobe iirs was ranked at 15 in that project and like 8 spots behind Shaq then just 2-3 years later after he had died they felt the need to do another all time ranking and put him at like 7 and ahead of Shaq. There was a lot of that going on after he died and it felt sort of contrived tbh. Kobe was great but I do think he had certain flaws that people largely overlook now.

ceiling raiser wrote:Outside of the top 10. Defense was a liability and his game wouldn’t age well.

2021-22 Demar DeRozan and Devin Booker were voted All-NBA, mind you.

No-more-rings wrote:

ceiling raiser wrote:

XTC wrote:
Game is 100-100 with 1 minute left. You can't tell me you'd rather have Curry than Kobe. Add in the difference in 1 on 1 defense, scoring arsenal, and clutch ability I can't find myself putting Curry over Kobe.

Its really sad people are forgetting how great Kobe truly was. 08 Kobe would be top 3 today.

No question. And the reason why I can take Curry is because I’m NOT forgetting how inconsistent and unreliable Kobe was. People have been overrating him like hell since he died.

If you’re going to keep making these sort of outrageous claims you may want to explain what exactly you’re talking about.

Kobe was overrated on defense, but turning into him being some sort of huge glaring liability to be out of the top 10 is wild lol

Top 1 for me Giannis and ig Steph and Jokic have arguments

ceiling raiser wrote:Outside of the top 10. Defense was a liability and his game wouldn’t age well.

You can’t be serious

ceiling raiser wrote:

XTC wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:Regular season, 5th after jokic, luka,giannis and curry

Playoffs 2nd below giannis, maybe below curry and jokic too at 4th

Dont trust embiid health in the playoffs

Game is 100-100 with 1 minute left. You can't tell me you'd rather have Curry than Kobe. Add in the difference in 1 on 1 defense, scoring arsenal, and clutch ability I can't find myself putting Curry over Kobe.

Its really sad people are forgetting how great Kobe truly was. 08 Kobe would be top 3 today.

No question. And the reason why I can take Curry is because I’m NOT forgetting how inconsistent and unreliable Kobe was. People have been overrating him like hell since he died.

Oh you’re one of those

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:
If you’re going to keep making these sort of outrageous claims you may want to explain what exactly you’re talking about.

I think there's some truth to what he's saying and its due in part to him dying so shortly after retirement because usually when an athlete dies there's a period where they are remembered and thought of more fondly then when they were alive. As an example, I recall espn doing a huge top 100 project for the nba with like 30 or 50 experts involved from all across the nba and media and Kobe iirs was ranked at 15 in that project and like 8 spots behind Shaq then just 2-3 years later after he had died they felt the need to do another all time ranking and put him at like 7 and ahead of Shaq. There was a lot of that going on after he died and it felt sort of contrived tbh. Kobe was great but I do think he had certain flaws that people largely overlook now.

I can only speak to on this board, which no I don’t think Kobe has seen any noticeable jump.

But that doesn’t address that he said Kobe would be out of the top 10 today and some massive liability on defense.

But again, that’s up to him to explain if he chooses. I don’t see how Kobe being overrated by the media and casuals has a lot of relevance to this board.