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If you were to re-create the 2002 Kings using modern players what would your line-up look like?

Hartenstein
Sabonis
Thompson
Bridges
Garland

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Hartenstein
Sabonis
Thompson
Bridges
Garland

That's not terrible except that Divac is an above average starter, more a Bam Abedayo level than a Isiah Hartenstein. Also they went 7-8 deep so we would need a Turkoglu and a Bobby Jackson especially in the playoffs where Peja played only half. Hartenstein could be Pollard as he doesn't shoot much from deep (Pollard was 0-2 from 3 for his entire career).

I think of them like this (match the players later):

Divac -- good passing, decent defense, medium volume on decent range center with craft rather than great athleticism.
Webber -- flashy passing, great athleticism, high volume on meh efficiency player with decent but not outstanding defense and some intangibles issues.
Peja -- pure 3 point shooter with PF height but not strength.
Christie -- strong defensive wing, average playmaking, below average shotmaking
Bibby -- shoot first point with good 3 point shot, above average playmaking, meh defense

Turkoglu -- Peja with better playmaking, handles and even defense, but average outside shooter instead of outstanding
Bobby Jackson -- aggressive defensive small guard who looked actively for his shot, average playmaking, not a particularly good outside shooter
Pollard -- smart veteran center with limited physical skills

More or less in their current age unless noted otherwise

Al Horford
Julius Randle
Bojan Bogdanović
Derrick White
Goran Dragić (a few years back)

Gordon Hayward
Davion Mitchell
Tristan Thompson (Boston version)

penbeast0 wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Hartenstein
Sabonis
Thompson
Bridges
Garland

That's not terrible except that Divac is an above average starter, more a Bam Abedayo level than a Isiah Hartenstein. Also they went 7-8 deep so we would need a Turkoglu and a Bobby Jackson especially in the playoffs where Peja played only half. Hartenstein could be Pollard as he doesn't shoot much from deep (Pollard was 0-2 from 3 for his entire career).

I think of them like this (match the players later):

Divac -- good passing, decent defense, medium volume on decent range center with craft rather than great athleticism.
Webber -- flashy passing, great athleticism, high volume on meh efficiency player with decent but not outstanding defense and some intangibles issues.
Peja -- pure 3 point shooter with PF height but not strength.
Christie -- strong defensive wing, average playmaking, below average shotmaking
Bibby -- shoot first point with good 3 point shot, above average playmaking, meh defense

Turkoglu -- Peja with better playmaking, handles and even defense, but average outside shooter instead of outstanding
Bobby Jackson -- aggressive defensive small guard who looked actively for his shot, average playmaking, not a particularly good outside shooter
Pollard -- smart veteran center with limited physical skills

Divac was a defensive center wirh great passing, at stage. Hartenstein was the closest for me, even if someone might think Vucevic. But there's nobody really like.him today, unless you want to consider a water3d down Jokic.
Turkoglu could be Franz Wagner, Jackson probably Sexton. Pollard was a very good and disciplined, ground bound, defensive center. Not so sure these guys exist now, as he was mostly a post defender

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Rich Michmond wrote:More or less in their current age unless noted otherwise

Al Horford
Julius Randle
Bojan Bogdanović
Derrick White
Goran Dragić (a few years back)

Gordon Hayward
Davion Mitchell
Tristan Thompson (Boston version)

I don't see Randle at all, to be honest.
You need a much better passer there.


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Bam Abedayo = Divac -- passing/defense/enough range to keep defenses honest
Domantas Sabonis = Webber -- passing/scoring/some defensive limitations
Duncan Robinson = Peja -- pure 3 point shooter, more a 3/2 than a 3/4 though
Matisse Thybulle = Christie -- strong defensive wing, below average shotmaking
CJ McCollum = Bibby -- shoot first point with good 3 point shot, above average playmaking, meh defense

Bojan Bogdanovitch = Hedo Turkoglu -- another 3 point shooter with more skills but less 3 point skill
Alex Caruso = Bobby Jackson -- aggressive defensive small guard who looked actively for his shot, average playmaking, not a particularly good outside shooter
Robin Lopez = Pollard -- smart veteran center with limited physical skills

Matt15 wrote:If you were to re-create the 2002 Kings using modern players what would your line-up look like?

2002 Kings Re-Creation Using Modern Players:



PG- '21 Reggie Jackson --> Mike Bibby
SG- '23 Derrick White --> Doug Christie
SF- '23 Michael Porter Jr. --> Peja Stojaković
PF- '23 Paolo Banchero --> Chris Webber
C- '23 Al Horford --> Vlade Divac

This took me way longer than it should have, but I finally feel confident enough in my choices.

PG: '21 Reggie Jackson | '02 Mike Bibby:

This was the one comparison that I was going back + forth on for a while. I wanted a point guard that is a solid passer, can knock down the three-ball, has solid off-ball movement, and has relatively low usage and offensive load. I felt that perfectly described the '21 Reggie Jackson experience.

SG: '23 Derrick White | '02 Doug Christie

This one felt pretty apt. Doug Christie was an inconsistent offensive player with good passing while being an all-defensive caliber guard on the other end. Derrick White this season embodies that.

SF: '23 Michael Porter Jr. | '02 Peja Stojaković

Two 6'10" generational shooters that look like they are moving in mud defensively? I felt that this comparison was the easiest one to make because it felt so natural.

'23 Paolo Banchero | '02 Chris Webber

Now, this comparison is most certainly not 1-to-1, but I do feel that Banchero blends his strength, athleticism, and passing skill very similar to what Chris Webber was doing in '02.

'23 Al Horford | '02 Vlade Divac

Another comparison that felt relatively natural. Both '23 Horford and '02 Divac are past their primes but are able to rely upon their high basketball IQ to lengthen their careers. Horford and Divac are two of the smartest passers in history at the big-man position while being intelligent on the defensive end. That high basketball IQ allows them to still have an impact on the game despite losing athleticism as they got older.

confucius wrote:

Matt15 wrote:If you were to re-create the 2002 Kings using modern players what would your line-up look like?

2002 Kings Re-Creation Using Modern Players:



PG- '21 Reggie Jackson --> Mike Bibby
SG- '23 Derrick White --> Doug Christie
SF- '23 Michael Porter Jr. --> Peja Stojaković
PF- '23 Paolo Banchero --> Chris Webber
C- '23 Al Horford --> Vlade Divac

This took me way longer than it should have, but I finally feel confident enough in my choices.

PG: '21 Reggie Jackson | '02 Mike Bibby:

This was the one comparison that I was going back + forth on for a while. I wanted a point guard that is a solid passer, can knock down the three-ball, has solid off-ball movement, and has relatively low usage and offensive load. I felt that perfectly described the '21 Reggie Jackson experience.

SG: '23 Derrick White | '02 Doug Christie

This one felt pretty apt. Doug Christie was an inconsistent offensive player with good passing while being an all-defensive caliber guard on the other end. Derrick White this season embodies that.

SF: '23 Michael Porter Jr. | '02 Peja Stojaković

Two 6'10" generational shooters that look like they are moving in mud defensively? I felt that this comparison was the easiest one to make because it felt so natural.

'23 Paolo Banchero | '02 Chris Webber

Now, this comparison is most certainly not 1-to-1, but I do feel that Banchero blends his strength, athleticism, and passing skill very similar to what Chris Webber was doing in '02.

'23 Al Horford | '02 Vlade Divac

Another comparison that felt relatively natural. Both '23 Horford and '02 Divac are past their primes but are able to rely upon their high basketball IQ to lengthen their careers. Horford and Divac are two of the smartest passers in history at the big-man position while being intelligent on the defensive end. That high basketball IQ allows them to still have an impact on the game despite losing athleticism as they got older.

Great analysis Mr. Confucius! I think these are all stellar choices

penbeast0 wrote:Bam Abedayo = Divac -- passing/defense/enough range to keep defenses honest
Domantas Sabonis = Webber -- passing/scoring/some defensive limitations
Duncan Robinson = Peja -- pure 3 point shooter, more a 3/2 than a 3/4 though
Matisse Thybulle = Christie -- strong defensive wing, below average shotmaking
CJ McCollum = Bibby -- shoot first point with good 3 point shot, above average playmaking, meh defense

Bojan Bogdanovitch = Hedo Turkoglu -- another 3 point shooter with more skills but less 3 point skill
Alex Caruso = Bobby Jackson -- aggressive defensive small guard who looked actively for his shot, average playmaking, not a particularly good outside shooter
Robin Lopez = Pollard -- smart veteran center with limited physical skills

bojan is too good of a shooter compated to that version of Turkoglu.
And Christie was closer to Kobe Bryant than to Thybulle as a scorer.
I like Lopez one, but Pollard was smaller.

confucius wrote:

Matt15 wrote:If you were to re-create the 2002 Kings using modern players what would your line-up look like?

2002 Kings Re-Creation Using Modern Players:



PG- '21 Reggie Jackson --> Mike Bibby
SG- '23 Derrick White --> Doug Christie
SF- '23 Michael Porter Jr. --> Peja Stojaković
PF- '23 Paolo Banchero --> Chris Webber
C- '23 Al Horford --> Vlade Divac

This took me way longer than it should have, but I finally feel confident enough in my choices.

PG: '21 Reggie Jackson | '02 Mike Bibby:

This was the one comparison that I was going back + forth on for a while. I wanted a point guard that is a solid passer, can knock down the three-ball, has solid off-ball movement, and has relatively low usage and offensive load. I felt that perfectly described the '21 Reggie Jackson experience.

SG: '23 Derrick White | '02 Doug Christie

This one felt pretty apt. Doug Christie was an inconsistent offensive player with good passing while being an all-defensive caliber guard on the other end. Derrick White this season embodies that.

SF: '23 Michael Porter Jr. | '02 Peja Stojaković

Two 6'10" generational shooters that look like they are moving in mud defensively? I felt that this comparison was the easiest one to make because it felt so natural.

'23 Paolo Banchero | '02 Chris Webber

Now, this comparison is most certainly not 1-to-1, but I do feel that Banchero blends his strength, athleticism, and passing skill very similar to what Chris Webber was doing in '02.

'23 Al Horford | '02 Vlade Divac

Another comparison that felt relatively natural. Both '23 Horford and '02 Divac are past their primes but are able to rely upon their high basketball IQ to lengthen their careers. Horford and Divac are two of the smartest passers in history at the big-man position while being intelligent on the defensive end. That high basketball IQ allows them to still have an impact on the game despite losing athleticism as they got older.

Very nice and informative post but that team doesn't really come across as a realistic contender in 2022 to me.

All these teams strike me as inadequate for a title push unlike the actual 02 kings. I wonder why

penbeast0 wrote:Matisse Thybulle = Christie -- strong defensive wing, below average shotmaking

Doug Christie didn't really create his only shot, but was a legit 3+D guy. Whereas Thybulle cannot shoot at all.

Someone like Mikal Bridges would probably be a better comparison.

OhayoKD wrote:Very nice and informative post but that team doesn't really come across as a realistic contender in 2022 to me.

All these teams strike me as inadequate for a title push unlike the actual 02 kings. I wonder why

Take a look at my version and tell me if you think it could be a title contender; I'd say assuming Duncan Robinson plays well but Peja missed about half that year's playoffs anyway with Turkoglu taking his minutes so Bojan would be getting as much or more time in the actual push to the WCF.

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:bojan is too good of a shooter compated to that version of Turkoglu.
And Christie was closer to Kobe Bryant than to Thybulle as a scorer.
I like Lopez one, but Pollard was smaller.

Is Bojan that much better relative to league? Turkoglu and Peja were both big wings who could shoot, my main problem was finding an equivalent skill set with the size; as you can see, I used to guys 6'7 or under instead.

As for Christie being closer to Kobe, seriously? Kobe was consistently putting up 25+ pp36 for a decade. Christie never broke 16 ppg in his career, even in his small minute years. Thybulle is clearly worse as a scorer (and to my mind better defensively) but his 8 pp36 number is more like Christie's career average of 11 and Thybulle takes more 3's (not for his era, but in terms of being a 5th option spacing/shooting threat).

penbeast0 wrote:Is Bojan that much better relative to league? Turkoglu and Peja were both big wings who could shoot, my main problem was finding an equivalent skill set with the size; as you can see, I used to guys 6'7 or under instead.

not better than Peja (who also was superior as a movement shooter), but much better than that version ha Turkoglu was more of an all around guy.
I would say Wagner but I think he's a better finisher and don't want to compare a European to another one, too lazy. Maybe Kyle Anderson?

As for Christie being closer to Kobe, seriously? Kobe was consistently putting up 25+ pp36 for a decade. Christie never broke 16 ppg in his career, even in his small minute years. Thybulle is clearly worse as a scorer (and to my mind better defensively) but his 8 pp36 number is more like Christie's career average of 11 and Thybulle takes more 3's (not for his era, but in terms of being a 5th option spacing/shooting threat).

Doug was a guy who could score in the low 20s per 100 possessions with league average efficiency. Thybulle less than 10 with well below league average efficiency. Moreover, Doug could handle the ball and was a good passer to the point he was even used as a secondary creator. Thybulle can literally only cut on offense.
I like the Derrick White comparison much more.

penbeast0 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:Very nice and informative post but that team doesn't really come across as a realistic contender in 2022 to me.

All these teams strike me as inadequate for a title push unlike the actual 02 kings. I wonder why

Take a look at my version and tell me if you think it could be a title contender; I'd say assuming Duncan Robinson plays well but Peja missed about half that year's playoffs anyway with Turkoglu taking his minutes so Bojan would be getting as much or more time in the actual push to the WCF.

Hmmm. I guess it looks like the 2020 heat though I think to emulate their success you'd need a better lead passer(like jimmy butler i guess).

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:

Rich Michmond wrote:More or less in their current age unless noted otherwise

Al Horford
Julius Randle
Bojan Bogdanović
Derrick White
Goran Dragić (a few years back)

Gordon Hayward
Davion Mitchell
Tristan Thompson (Boston version)

I don't see Randle at all, to be honest.
You need a much better passer there.


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Randle's APG peak tops Webber, and in practice, Webber-the-passer called his own number way too much for me to be that impressed. He seems like a great choice as a modern Webber.

One might object because you don't want Randle at all if you're trying to build a Kings-style contender in today's game, but that just makes the analogy work better for me.

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Hartenstein
Sabonis
Thompson
Bridges
Garland

I feel like Sabonis is more Brad Miller, which is meant as a compliment.

Doctor MJ wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Hartenstein
Sabonis
Thompson
Bridges
Garland

I feel like Sabonis is more Brad Miller, which is meant as a compliment.

It is—Miller is an impact standout as was a Divac for a long-long time.

OF course, Miller wasn't on that team in 2002.

Which side do you pick, all at prime?
Divac -- Boris Diaw.
Webber -- Rasheed.
Peja -- Kover.
Christie -- Prince
Bibby -- Arenas

Turkoglu -- Kukoc
Bobby Jackson -- Mike James
Pollard -- Dwight Powell

penbeast0 wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Hartenstein
Sabonis
Thompson
Bridges
Garland

That's not terrible except that Divac is an above average starter, more a Bam Abedayo level than a Isiah Hartenstein. Also they went 7-8 deep so we would need a Turkoglu and a Bobby Jackson especially in the playoffs where Peja played only half. Hartenstein could be Pollard as he doesn't shoot much from deep (Pollard was 0-2 from 3 for his entire career).

I think of them like this (match the players later):

Divac -- good passing, decent defense, medium volume on decent range center with craft rather than great athleticism.
Webber -- flashy passing, great athleticism, high volume on meh efficiency player with decent but not outstanding defense and some intangibles issues.
Peja -- pure 3 point shooter with PF height but not strength.
Christie -- strong defensive wing, average playmaking, below average shotmaking
Bibby -- shoot first point with good 3 point shot, above average playmaking, meh defense

Turkoglu -- Peja with better playmaking, handles and even defense, but average outside shooter instead of outstanding
Bobby Jackson -- aggressive defensive small guard who looked actively for his shot, average playmaking, not a particularly good outside shooter
Pollard -- smart veteran center with limited physical skills